I have no problem with a system of essentially "reading for the law." Don't kid yourselves that this will make the bar diverse, however. The only people that will be mentored like this are those who already have a close friend or relative practicing law. Law school is mostly useless, but the LSAT serves a useful purpose of sifting out people of below average intelligence. There will be people who do 4 years of mentoring and won't be able to pass the bar exam. It will be a lot like the low pass rates for non-ABA schools in California.
A better system would be a three year program as follows:
YEAR ONE: Black letter law, similar to 1L year now, but with additional and more emphasis on legal writing. (If UNLV's legal writing program really is the best in America, then the legal academy has collectively failed in a truly epic way).
YEAR TWO: Mock trials, mock motion work, objections, ethics, legal practice, more legal writing and research.
YEAR THREE (AND MAYBE FOUR): A residency/clerkship with a law firm, in house, non-profit, court or government agency. Provisional, temporary license to practice law under the supervision of an attorney.
BAR EXAM.
I also think it's silly that I am licensed to practice in ALL areas of law even though I know jack shit about them. There ought to be a secondary sub-bar/board exam for specific practice areas too. And it ought to be renewed every 10 years or so.
I don't know, it's funny when someone asks me about some random area of law I've never touched. I am always tempted to respond along the lines of, "Ah, yes, the Copenhagen-Topeka Act of 1833 clearly controls here…"
9:33
Law school is absolutely important. It is not supposed to teach you how to practice but do give you an education on the foundations and how to think like a lawyer. Practicum comes from your first law firm where you trade low wages for gaining practical experience. Same thing in medicine, except the first job is formalized as a "residency".
BTW – sub-Bar exam. You may not have noticed the many specialty certifications that require both experience and an exam.
Moving away from "reading the law" to more regimented formal education was about getting away from the patronage concerns inherent in master-apprentice learning arrangements. Well-regulated higher education is about ensuring access and that meritocracy prevails over one's pedigree, connections, or wealth.
@9:33; I doubt that you can adequately cover the various areas of black letter legal history and theory in 1 year,perhaps you would need 2 years for that. I do agree that far more emphasis on legal writing is needed. The pleadings I regularly observe are almost indecipherable streams of random thoughts. Your opposing counsel, much less the court, is not going to be impressed if they have difficulty figuring out your issues and the support for your position. The best pleadings, IMHO, are those that are brief and succinct. The saying "less is more" comes to mind.
In terms of gaining practical experience, a residency requirement would probably be a good idea. I do not like placing it under the control of private law firms. That would create a class of indentured servants that could be abused at will for fear of losing their ability of becoming licensed. Rather, it would make more sense to place them with non-profits and government agencies under the supervision of licensed attorneys. The student gains practical experience, the public gains by adding staffing to government agencies without corresponding budget impacts, and the low income gain by increased access to justice through the non-profits.
In Canada they have an open book bar exam after your three years and then you have a requirement of a year of articling which is basically like a residency. A closed book bar exam is a joke and law school does not teach you how to be a lawyer.
Guest
Jordan Ross, Principal, Ross Legal Search
October 17, 2019 6:39 pm
Fall colors????? Unlike those of you living in the cool, moist climate of Las Vegas with its abundant vegetation, I live in Laughlin. The sand only comes in one shade…
The "the best local options for seeing fall colors" are likely on the outbound flight board at McCarran International Airport. Ask for a destination where actual leaf-bearing trees can be found. White Plains, NY is beautiful this time of year.
I'm a defense lawyer, and I'll just say that the best case-ending nuggets I've ever landed have come when the plaintiff's lawyer doesn't determine who the plaintiff treats with. Like the guy suing for traumatic brain injury based on an alleged product defect that went to 30 doctors before he could find one that said his brain had any issues. If I'm a plaintiff's lawyer, and if I want to maximize my profit and my client's return, I'm going to have a say in picking doctors.
1:40 here. Do you actually disagree? As in, you think lawyers are taking their own personal injury cases to PI mills? Maybe. I don't work in PI. I could not imaging anyone I work with using a billboard firm.
Also, that's a reeeeally quick turnaround to actually retaining another lawyer. One hour? Maybe two? That's why it never happened. And if you really wanted to shine whatever firm treated you bad you'd name them. Cool story though.
Guest
Anonymous
October 17, 2019 6:54 pm
las
Guest
Anonymous
October 17, 2019 8:39 pm
Lance White for judicial appointment? That is scary.
Guest
Anonymous
October 17, 2019 11:38 pm
Just volunteered to work for Trump 2020 doing social media tasks. Pretty excited as I've never done this before. If I have even a billionth of a scintilla of influence, please thank Pelosi who was most of my motivation. I have to admit I am slightly concerned that the Bar (in my opinion, full of liberals and so-called "progressive" radicals) will see my social media activities and file it away for any irritations they might cause me in the future. Oh well. In any case: MAGA!
I have no problem with a system of essentially "reading for the law." Don't kid yourselves that this will make the bar diverse, however. The only people that will be mentored like this are those who already have a close friend or relative practicing law. Law school is mostly useless, but the LSAT serves a useful purpose of sifting out people of below average intelligence. There will be people who do 4 years of mentoring and won't be able to pass the bar exam. It will be a lot like the low pass rates for non-ABA schools in California.
A better system would be a three year program as follows:
YEAR ONE: Black letter law, similar to 1L year now, but with additional and more emphasis on legal writing. (If UNLV's legal writing program really is the best in America, then the legal academy has collectively failed in a truly epic way).
YEAR TWO: Mock trials, mock motion work, objections, ethics, legal practice, more legal writing and research.
YEAR THREE (AND MAYBE FOUR): A residency/clerkship with a law firm, in house, non-profit, court or government agency. Provisional, temporary license to practice law under the supervision of an attorney.
BAR EXAM.
I also think it's silly that I am licensed to practice in ALL areas of law even though I know jack shit about them. There ought to be a secondary sub-bar/board exam for specific practice areas too. And it ought to be renewed every 10 years or so.
I don't know, it's funny when someone asks me about some random area of law I've never touched. I am always tempted to respond along the lines of, "Ah, yes, the Copenhagen-Topeka Act of 1833 clearly controls here…"
9:33
Law school is absolutely important. It is not supposed to teach you how to practice but do give you an education on the foundations and how to think like a lawyer. Practicum comes from your first law firm where you trade low wages for gaining practical experience. Same thing in medicine, except the first job is formalized as a "residency".
BTW – sub-Bar exam. You may not have noticed the many specialty certifications that require both experience and an exam.
Moving away from "reading the law" to more regimented formal education was about getting away from the patronage concerns inherent in master-apprentice learning arrangements. Well-regulated higher education is about ensuring access and that meritocracy prevails over one's pedigree, connections, or wealth.
@9:33; I doubt that you can adequately cover the various areas of black letter legal history and theory in 1 year,perhaps you would need 2 years for that. I do agree that far more emphasis on legal writing is needed. The pleadings I regularly observe are almost indecipherable streams of random thoughts. Your opposing counsel, much less the court, is not going to be impressed if they have difficulty figuring out your issues and the support for your position. The best pleadings, IMHO, are those that are brief and succinct. The saying "less is more" comes to mind.
In terms of gaining practical experience, a residency requirement would probably be a good idea. I do not like placing it under the control of private law firms. That would create a class of indentured servants that could be abused at will for fear of losing their ability of becoming licensed. Rather, it would make more sense to place them with non-profits and government agencies under the supervision of licensed attorneys. The student gains practical experience, the public gains by adding staffing to government agencies without corresponding budget impacts, and the low income gain by increased access to justice through the non-profits.
In Canada they have an open book bar exam after your three years and then you have a requirement of a year of articling which is basically like a residency. A closed book bar exam is a joke and law school does not teach you how to be a lawyer.
Fall colors????? Unlike those of you living in the cool, moist climate of Las Vegas with its abundant vegetation, I live in Laughlin. The sand only comes in one shade…
The "the best local options for seeing fall colors" are likely on the outbound flight board at McCarran International Airport. Ask for a destination where actual leaf-bearing trees can be found. White Plains, NY is beautiful this time of year.
The Reno/Tahoe area and the western slope of the Sierras. Google images also has a nice array of fall colors.
Mt. Charleston gets some fall colors, but mostly yellow.
I just called one of the "best of lad vegas" personal injury law firms, and I was treated like shit. Retained another firm.
In today's episode of Things that Never Happened….
Is it? Because law firms cannot suck?
Do not hire a bill board lawyer. Your lawyer should not determine who you treat with.
I'm a defense lawyer, and I'll just say that the best case-ending nuggets I've ever landed have come when the plaintiff's lawyer doesn't determine who the plaintiff treats with. Like the guy suing for traumatic brain injury based on an alleged product defect that went to 30 doctors before he could find one that said his brain had any issues. If I'm a plaintiff's lawyer, and if I want to maximize my profit and my client's return, I'm going to have a say in picking doctors.
It never happened because people who post on a blog like this are not calling billboard lawyers.
Sure chief.
1:40 here. Do you actually disagree? As in, you think lawyers are taking their own personal injury cases to PI mills? Maybe. I don't work in PI. I could not imaging anyone I work with using a billboard firm.
Also, that's a reeeeally quick turnaround to actually retaining another lawyer. One hour? Maybe two? That's why it never happened. And if you really wanted to shine whatever firm treated you bad you'd name them. Cool story though.
las
Lance White for judicial appointment? That is scary.
Just volunteered to work for Trump 2020 doing social media tasks. Pretty excited as I've never done this before. If I have even a billionth of a scintilla of influence, please thank Pelosi who was most of my motivation. I have to admit I am slightly concerned that the Bar (in my opinion, full of liberals and so-called "progressive" radicals) will see my social media activities and file it away for any irritations they might cause me in the future. Oh well. In any case: MAGA!