I have been waiting for this to be one of the topics. Now to discuss the Telles cha-chas and cho-chos.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 9:43 am
Not Guilty:
1. Do not trust the DNA and believe it could have been planted or mistakenly matched by police and lab.
2. There is no blood anywhere from a vicious stabbing?
3. Driver has hair, RT is bald
4. The shoes could be planted. Why did it take so long to find them? Seems too convenient. Just like no one seems to know who bagged the hands.
5. Govt labs told me a vaccine was 100% effective, it was not. Same govt forced me to mask, stay home because they had facts. Later we found out that the facts and science were not truthful. Why should I put 100% faith in science or labs? Without that, the case has little to nothing other than a lot of maybes, maybe not.
6. DA never tried to address why they could not find the hat and clothes and how all the blood is gone.
If you cannot change the doubts on all six of the above, you cannot unhang this jury
Isn’t the problem with the shoe planting theory that they planted a single shoe (that Telles seemingly owned) but didn’t plant the hat/shirt or anything else.
The jury’s job is not to convict the “shoe planter” but to find no reasonable doubt before they convict this man. Your argument would be more directed at a jury deciding whether person X planted a shoe at a crime scene. Additionally, the shoes are not even confirmed as the same ones correct? Shouldn’t the murderer’s shoes be covered in blood?
Not necessarily. It wasn’t a long drawn out stand-up fight with blood dripping down. If a guy gets bum rushed and knocked down immediately then I wouldn’t expect it.
1. DNA was so solid that Defense did not even present a DNA expert
2. Telles wore a plastic vest that would be the location of the blood and went to a gym with showers and trash cans immediately after the killing.
3. Driver did not have hair. Telles bought an entire disguise but we presume did not address his most distinctive physical feature.
4. Why did it take so long to find the shoes? They were found in a secret location mere hours after execution of the search warrant.
5. Because based on your logic no one would ever be convicted.
6. They did address this. They have the hat all chopped up. They have the shoes all chopped up. The only clothes that they did not find was the vest and the pants. However they have the Defendant going to gym with showers and trash cans immediately after the killing.
1. Good Point, but that does not budge the non believer in lab science.
2. Why didn’t they find these pieces then? Since they knew it was him so fast?
3. There is no proof of this disguise purchase so I will not consider speculation
4. Secret location? Mere hours? The house was destroyed. Under the couch?
5. Sour grapes and hurts your other arguments. Doing this in a jury room will help anchor the holdouts on their position. Insults or saying someone’s opinion is stupid or crazy can help anchor people too.
6. They have the hat? I did not hear testimony that the pieces were the hat? did I miss that expert? The rest of your argument requires me to speculate about what someone did at a gym with no factual evidence.
This brings up a good point. As prosecutors, how much do you rely on DNA evidence when we’ve seen a large anti-science, anti-intellectual shift in the general population the past couple decades?
If a person adamantly refuses to look at evidence, you address that at voir dire.
RT was getting rid of evidence. This surprises you? Or is it that you believe the burden is for prosecution to completely reproduce to the smallest detail the entire crime scene. Because it isn’t.
Why would anyone want his receipt for the hat? I don’t care if it was stolen or lying around.
The shoes were found in his house in a hiding place. That’s the relevant detail. What’s your point?
Whatever was said, they reached a guilty verdict.
You want a hat expert? I cut your shirt into a few pieces and now you need an expert to detetmine if it was your shirt?
It’s a safe inferential step to believe someone committing murder will try to cover it up. No speculation needed.
If a person adamantly refuses to look at evidence, you address that at voir dire.
RT was getting rid of evidence. This surprises you? Or is it that you believe the burden is for prosecution to completely reproduce to the smallest detail the entire crime scene. Because it isn’t.
Why would anyone want his receipt for the hat? I don’t care if it was stolen or lying around.
The shoes were found in his house in a hiding place. That’s the relevant detail. What’s your point?
Whatever was said, they reached a guilty verdict.
You want a hat expert? I cut your shirt into a few pieces and now you need an expert to detetmine if it was your shirt?
It’s a safe inferential step to believe someone committing murder will try to cover it up. No speculation needed.
Guilty.
Planting DNA of 1 specific person on a crime scene is hard even if you have the cooperation of analysts, detectives and lab techs. Without, it’s damn near impossible. You don’t just go collect epithelial cells and sprinkle them.
There was blood everywhere. TV didn’t show all the photos but it did show one with German’s shirt covered.
The photo doesn’t show hair anymore than that old B+W photo shows a Loch Ness Monster.
The shoes were seen in one of RT’s own photos. They were his.
I’m sorry you’ve been lied to before. That doesn’t mean you should think literally everything is a lie. You’ll go mad. (And, of course, this is totally irrelevant to the case.)
What do you mean “didn’t find the hat”? Police did find the hat cut up. They showed it over and over. And what on earth do you mean “the blood was gone”? German was covered in blood.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 9:55 am
Guilty:
– Means, motive, opportunity
– No alibi other than “taking a walk” that his wife didn’t know about
– DNA evidence, defense didn’t have any rebuttal other than “just don’t trust them”
– The clothes most likely to have blood weren’t found
– Shoes and hat found in Telles’ house
– Deleted messages, “Where are you?”
– Telles’ reaction to the deleted messages
– Phone records (photos, searches) show Telles was looking at German’s house
– Videos of Telles’ truck (or what appears to be Telles’ truck), only 1 video maybe shows a different driver (or Telles wearing a wig that he trashed with the shirt)
– Gait videos. Not as convincing to me, but enough to show the attacker was a similar build/walk to Telles
– Framing him doesn’t make sense. Killing German to get rid of Telles doesn’t make sense. Unless it was someone who wanted German dead and wanted to pin it on Telles, but there’s no evidence of that (to my knowledge).
I think you could find some degree of doubt on some of those, but I don’t think it’s enough to overcome all the evidence that points to Telles as the attacker
MMO is not relevant – it is opinion and that leaves reasonable doubt
No alibi? LMAO – This is America, not Italy. One does not need to prove innocence
DNA – Lots of people do not trust Science or Labs and COVID gave them more rational reason
Clothes with blood not found? Thank you, that is a defense point so not sure why you present it
Shoes and Hat – When did they find the shoes? How were they missed until later? and Hat? tell us more about this hat.
Deleted messages? Really? LOL Reaction is opinion and opinions differ
Searched for address of guy that had met with and was writing news? Maybe he wanted to go by and plead with him not to publish? or to clarify? Or he was trying to find dirt on the guy that found dirt on him? Not convincing.
Gait is another one that makes me think not guilty. Don’t see it. What did the expert say on this? Maybe we need to revisit that testimony?
Framing does not make sense? Murder does not make sense either.
I think he is likely guilty, and I thought he would be convicted by now, but I could see a couple people anchoring and not budging.
MMO not relevant? There’s a take.
Yes, evidence matters, which is why 8 billion of us can be ruled out by evidence that we were somewhere else. We have an alibi.
You then turn right around and say some people don’t like evidence. Your grievances are somewhat chaotic. This is why voir dire is so important to screen out those well beyond reasonable argument.
Would you not be alarmed if someone who had left a series of angry comments about you looked up your address and paid you a visit?
These are not reasonable arguments, hence the standard.
Opinions are subjective and everyone is entitled to one, but you really seem to be ignoring the great weight of the evidence here in favor of pointing out a few spots with bare covering.
Exactly. That was the point. It was to answer the people who seemed to be mystified at why the jury was actually deliberating. I was pointing out that there were lots of things to discuss, debate, and hopefully resolve. That was the point.
Where was the gait walking expert? Where was the expert about the wood pieces in the bag? Where was discussion about why the driver looks nothing like RT? Not there. =
This jury is interesting…it took OJ’s jury 4 hours to get a verdict…
Wondering if this length thus far is for throwing the book at him or because of reasonable doubt..
I am rooting for Draskovich’s brilliant lawyering regardless of RT being a POS either way…
I am rooting for Draskovich. Like OJ, RT will get his comeuppance.
Guest
Former Attorney
August 28, 2024 10:32 am
Question for the reasonable doubt apologists on here—so was it a DIFFERENT Denali? The conspiracy went so far as obtaining an identical vehicle as Telles, rims and all? What if Telles had left his house during the murder, in the “real” Denali? Or took a long phone call? The “framing” would have fallen apart, no?
Possible. I have seen a lot of those trucks around town. And one does not need to believe RT was framed to doubt certain parts of the case. Incompetence, errors, and coincidences all can play into someone’s belief too. Additionally, the jurors might be irrational incompetent, or lacking in intelligence. There are so many factors that could play into someone not viewing the evidence the way we view it.
It’s because he’s a public official! They just want to take him down because he’s a public official. He’s a public official. They just want to take him down because he’s a public official!
Lolz. By the time he committed the murder, he had lost the primary election, so he was a lame duck and was going to be out of office in four months’ time. The grand conspiracy theory might’ve had studier legs to stand on if Telles had won re-election and was going to hold office for another four years.
I’m looking to switch insurance carriers for my umbrella and a landlord policy (and I would consider switching auto and home too). Anyone have recommendations for a great broker?
Swarts Manning.
Anyone over there can help you. Kyle Henrie is my guy.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 10:50 am
I am not a criminal law practitioner, but isn’t it the jury’s job to determine whether the prosecution has proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt, rather than determining whether there is reasonable doubt. I think there’s a difference — looking for reasonable doubt would place the burden on the defendant, whereas determining proof beyond reasonable doubt maintains the burden on the State. Although the defendant has introduced evidence that somehow may lead a jury to believe reasonable doubt, it’s still the State’s burden to prove that defendant committed the subject crimes. Ultimately, let’s see what the jury determines.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 10:54 am
Tom Girardi, LA Icon
The Girardi firm was an iconic PI firm in Los Angeles that did good work ad brought in some large verdicts. Back in the day my office had many cases with his firm (med mal defense). He made a lot of money and spent a lot too. It is sad to see him sink so low ($15M verdict for defrauding clients). He has dementia, which contributed to the issues surrounding disbarment. It sounds like some of his hanger on people and ex-wife took advantage.
There is a time and place for every lawyer to hang it up.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 10:59 am
Telles verdict is going to be read around noon according to RJ, as jury reached a verdict.
Guest
Former Attorney
August 28, 2024 11:07 am
If you’re Draskovich do you use this time to prepare Telles for a guilty verdict, to try and prevent a courtroom meltdown?
I second that USAA is trash. I submitted roughly $25K a homeowners’ claim last year and it’s still open. USAA claims it did not receive receipts and makes us re-submit everything multiple times, they can’t do math, not very good at reading, and fight us on everything. They also misidentified our claim, so we have to fight that every time. Very much a garbage company, 0/10 — do not recommend.
I selfishly hope at least one juror speaks to the media.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 11:30 am
This case has been so interesting. Someone asked this question yesterday and I’m curious. When I was barred the go to criminal defense guys in town were Oscar, Bucky Buchanan, John Momot, Steve Stein, Frank Cremen and Bill Terry. If you had a big white collar case Gentile or Rick Wright. Most of those guys seem to be passed, retired or at least on the tail end of long careers. I don’t know Chesnoff but seems to me he only represents celebrities. Who are the go to guys/gals you would send someone to for a criminal case? I saw Draskovich in this trial but I honestly don’t know who is good at that practice area. Who do you refer to for criminal cases?
Warren Geller or Josh Tomsheck are probably the guys at the top of the generation that’s currently in its prime. Bob Draskovich and Mike Pariente are big names that aren’t just big names, but are very good attorneys. Some of the big names, though, aren’t really that great.
Josh Tomscheck, Chris Oram, Pete Christiansen, Ivette Maningo, Ozzie Fumo, Alzora Jackson, Lance Maningo, Paola Armeni, Robert Draskovich, Michael Pariente (DUI), Lisa Rasmussen
Longtime prosecutor. For a murder case: Draskovitch, Christiansen, Oram in that order. Some others mentioned here are good attorneys, but not for murder or high stakes cases. Others listed here are not as good as they think they are, or as good as others perceive them to be.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 11:37 am
*Alexa, play “Creed – My Own Prison” on Spotify*
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 12:04 pm
What are the little circle lapel pins people in the back (defense side) are wearing?
I think everyone knew he was guilty. The question was level of reasonable doubt. Lots of good discussion. Jury did their job and came to the right result. Bravo to our judicial system!
He’ll be vindicated on appeal and if not on appeal then on state habeas and if not on state habeas then federal habeas and if not federal habeas, then his second federal habeas should clean it up (once SCOTUS takes up the cause)
Wolfson just said this case is not a death penalty case. The jury will get to consider the lying in wait, the deadly weapon, and that German was elderly.
Wolfson said there are three options for penalty phase:
1. Life without parole
2. Life with parole after mandatory 20 years
3. Mandatory 50 years with minimum parole eligibility after the 50.
I got the impression from his body language that he knows he is guilty and was not surprised by the verdict despite holding out hope that someone might find some reasonable doubt and let him off the hook.
Rob took it stoically, all things considered. I fully expected a messy melt down and he held it together. You have to think Draskovich prepped him emotionally for this. Telles handled it much better than when he was denied bail.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 12:55 pm
For the penalty phase, can Telles present mitigating circumstances himself through narrative testimony again?
Draskovich can do the mitigating testimony because it would not have to involve adducing perjury.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 12:57 pm
News Flash Rita: your office is still an unmitigated shitshow. Rob didn’t fix that but neither have you.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 1:18 pm
Interesting twist – the Marshall who stood behind Rob while the verdict was read was Randy Hawkes. Marshall Hawkes was assigned to probate for years. He was the guy who would run pro se litigants out of the court room when they got mouthy with Yamashita (good times, good times). He and Rob know each other quite well as they saw and talked with each other every Friday for years.
You should sell your soul and join the staff. Actual headline: “Robert Telles verdict: Dem Vegas politician accused of killing journalist found guilty”
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 1:41 pm
Draskovich can sleep well knowing he gave that POS everything the Constitution requires, and more. Don’t spend any emotional effort on this Rob, this is not your loss. This criminal case showed what a working justice system should be.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 1:50 pm
Not one tear from Telles still. If I was a man wrongfully convicted of murder, I would be hysterical. Prison life will suit him well.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 1:54 pm
It looks like Telles might be starting to tear up while Jeff’s sister talks about what a great uncle he was.
What we often overlook is that sentencing phases are not really about the perpetrator often. Draskovich did a good job of making it about the women and children in Telles’s life. I think Rob is absolutely guilty of a heinous crime. Take the other factors out and I would have considered DP if the DA had gone for it after seeing the evidence. But thinking about showing mercy and grace to his wife and mother would be hard to overlook.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 2:10 pm
If your spouse was convicted of murder, would you testify in the penalty phase on their behalf? I would.
May is collateral damage to his acts and hubris. His children are collateral damage. My heart goes out to them.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 2:13 pm
Telles is super creepy. When the camera pans over to him it looks like he’s consciously trying to show emotions on his face like a human. Jeff German’s family is so dignified and it’s so sad to think that they lost him in such a horrible, violent attack. Thinking of the fear and pain he felt in his last minutes is too much. I don’t think I’d be able to hold it together like they did.
German’s sisters’ loss was 720 days ago. They did an amazing job of keeping it together and painting a picture of him with grace. Telles’s wife and children are dealing with their loss today (which they probably knew was coming).
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 2:25 pm
This is gut wrenching. My heart goes out to the German family and RT’s family.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 2:32 pm
Question for criminal attorneys. Is the preparation of penalty phase witnesses part of your regular trial prep in the event that you lose? I always assumed there was more time given for preparation of this phase.
If you are intending to have the jury do sentencing (which Telles always was going to do after his run-ins with Judge Leavitt) you had to be ready to go whenever the jury entered a verdict.
The prosecution, defendant, and defense counsel all have to agree to waive the penalty hearing and agree to let the judge sentence. NRS 175.552(2). It’s probably rare to waive.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 2:34 pm
Also, does the jury have to be unanimous on the penalty choice?
“2. In a case in which the death penalty is not sought, if a jury is unable to reach a unanimous verdict upon the sentence to be imposed, the trial judge shall impose the sentence.”
In his comments to the media, Wolfson was very gracious to Draskovich and Horvath, mentioning them by name and saying they did a great job. I like that.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 2:45 pm
I am the law student he groped and I urge the jurors to not grant Rob parole.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 3:03 pm
Draskovich talking about justice and mercy is the anti-Boyd K Packer. This almost feels like a Gospel Doctrine lesson.
Had to look up the word “bussin.” It is slang for excellent or delicious. Does this mean that Draskovich is 1. an excellent lawyer; 2. attractive; or 3. some combination thereof?
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 3:16 pm
Which penalty would you assess?
Life without
Life with
or 50 years with.
Life without. He killed a journalist for exercising his First Amendment rights. The is the United Fucking States of America, not some third world hell hole. We do not kill journalists or people because of what they say. Period. This alone should be the end of the analysis. But, the killing was also grisly and Telles was willing to lie and lie and lie. Life without.
Agreed. Don’t also forget that Telles was a licensed attorney. As every licensed attorney has done in Nevada, he swore an oath to support and defend the Constitutions of the United States and Nevada. He took that same oath again when he took office as Clark County Public Administrator. That means, in at least some measure, Telles was obligated on those oaths to not commit crimes and to not subvert First Amendment freedoms.
Society should expect the best conduct from those who hold public trusts, and society should demand harsh punishments for those who violate the public trust in as heinous a fashion as Telles did here. Telles should’ve gotten life without.
Exactly how did he violate the public trust? If he was a DA who used his position as a DA to score discounts on pharmaceuticals in exchange for lenient sentencing, that’s a violation of the public trust. If he used his position as Public Administrator to pull off some sweet real estate deals for his buddies, that’s a violation of the public trust. If he was a cop who pulled someone over, put them in handcuffs, and abused them, that’s a violation of the public trust.
That’s a fairly narrow view of being a public officeholder and what it means to act at all times consistently with the public trust vested in all public officers. It doesn’t bring disrepute upon the State and upon other public officers when one chooses to commit first degree murder? It doesn’t bring disrepute on the legal profession when an attorney commits a first degree murder? I guess I expect more from attorneys and public officers than you do.
No, it doesn’t bring disrepute on the legal profession when an attorney does something that breaks the law but which has nothing to do with the practice of law. Does it bring disrepute to the legal profession when an attorney commits suicide? When their marriage breaks up? Gets a reckless driving citation? Files for bankruptcy? I mean, at what point is “the public trust” just another club you use to beat people with?
Would Jeff German be any less dead if Rob wasn’t a member of the bar? Keep in mind that you don’t have to be an attorney to be the Public Administrator. John Cahill wasn’t.
Rob is guilty. He should go to prison. He will likely die there. His crime had nothing to do with his bar card or the office he held. Wanting to enhance his sentence because “he broke the public trust” is just silly.
Life with parole after 20 years, assuming he won’t make his first parole date, puts him into his 70s before he is released. Seems like sufficient punishment to me. Life w/o is good for vengeance and nothing else.
I’m a crime and punishment type guy. Also, I do believe in second chances (in most circumstances).
20 years – at minimum – is a long time to sit and reflect on your actions. Yes, Telles actions are inexcusable, but I do think that after, at least, 20 years Telles should be afforded a second chance.
He’ll never get 20 years regardless. Even if the jury gives him 20 the enhancement knocks him up another 10 I’d guess. If he’s 48, he’d be getting out of jail at 78. Given prison life expectancy rates I’d be surprised if he lived that long.
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
Matthew 7:1-3
A life sentence tempered by the mere possibility of parole is not too lenient. If he maintains his improbable claim that he was framed, he is unlikely to be granted parole.
And depending on how long the sentencing enhancement that the Judge metes out and how it interacts with the jury’s sentence, coupled with RT’s age, there’s a real possibility he dies in prison before becoming parole eligible anyway.
The odds that this was a life sentence handed down yesterday are very high. He is going to do 3 decades in miserable conditions with deplorable healthcare. He is going to have to hope he makes it to 75 which is far below the actuarial expectations for prisoners on a murder rap.
Guest
Anonymous
August 28, 2024 4:18 pm
If I understand it correctly, Leavitt will sentence him on the enhancements later on. If the jury gives him 20-Life, I would almost guarantee she adds an extra 5 plus years to that sentence.
I have been waiting for this to be one of the topics. Now to discuss the Telles cha-chas and cho-chos.
Not Guilty:
1. Do not trust the DNA and believe it could have been planted or mistakenly matched by police and lab.
2. There is no blood anywhere from a vicious stabbing?
3. Driver has hair, RT is bald
4. The shoes could be planted. Why did it take so long to find them? Seems too convenient. Just like no one seems to know who bagged the hands.
5. Govt labs told me a vaccine was 100% effective, it was not. Same govt forced me to mask, stay home because they had facts. Later we found out that the facts and science were not truthful. Why should I put 100% faith in science or labs? Without that, the case has little to nothing other than a lot of maybes, maybe not.
6. DA never tried to address why they could not find the hat and clothes and how all the blood is gone.
If you cannot change the doubts on all six of the above, you cannot unhang this jury
When reason leaves reasonable doubt.
Isn’t the problem with the shoe planting theory that they planted a single shoe (that Telles seemingly owned) but didn’t plant the hat/shirt or anything else.
The jury’s job is not to convict the “shoe planter” but to find no reasonable doubt before they convict this man. Your argument would be more directed at a jury deciding whether person X planted a shoe at a crime scene. Additionally, the shoes are not even confirmed as the same ones correct? Shouldn’t the murderer’s shoes be covered in blood?
Not necessarily. It wasn’t a long drawn out stand-up fight with blood dripping down. If a guy gets bum rushed and knocked down immediately then I wouldn’t expect it.
To your last question, no. Perhaps movies and video games and a lack of real world experience have misinformed people.
If he did it, you’d know because he would be dripping in blood from head to toe ala Carrie. Not Guilty. Oh, it over?
1. DNA was so solid that Defense did not even present a DNA expert
2. Telles wore a plastic vest that would be the location of the blood and went to a gym with showers and trash cans immediately after the killing.
3. Driver did not have hair. Telles bought an entire disguise but we presume did not address his most distinctive physical feature.
4. Why did it take so long to find the shoes? They were found in a secret location mere hours after execution of the search warrant.
5. Because based on your logic no one would ever be convicted.
6. They did address this. They have the hat all chopped up. They have the shoes all chopped up. The only clothes that they did not find was the vest and the pants. However they have the Defendant going to gym with showers and trash cans immediately after the killing.
1. Good Point, but that does not budge the non believer in lab science.
2. Why didn’t they find these pieces then? Since they knew it was him so fast?
3. There is no proof of this disguise purchase so I will not consider speculation
4. Secret location? Mere hours? The house was destroyed. Under the couch?
5. Sour grapes and hurts your other arguments. Doing this in a jury room will help anchor the holdouts on their position. Insults or saying someone’s opinion is stupid or crazy can help anchor people too.
6. They have the hat? I did not hear testimony that the pieces were the hat? did I miss that expert? The rest of your argument requires me to speculate about what someone did at a gym with no factual evidence.
This brings up a good point. As prosecutors, how much do you rely on DNA evidence when we’ve seen a large anti-science, anti-intellectual shift in the general population the past couple decades?
If a person adamantly refuses to look at evidence, you address that at voir dire.
RT was getting rid of evidence. This surprises you? Or is it that you believe the burden is for prosecution to completely reproduce to the smallest detail the entire crime scene. Because it isn’t.
Why would anyone want his receipt for the hat? I don’t care if it was stolen or lying around.
The shoes were found in his house in a hiding place. That’s the relevant detail. What’s your point?
Whatever was said, they reached a guilty verdict.
You want a hat expert? I cut your shirt into a few pieces and now you need an expert to detetmine if it was your shirt?
It’s a safe inferential step to believe someone committing murder will try to cover it up. No speculation needed.
If a person adamantly refuses to look at evidence, you address that at voir dire.
RT was getting rid of evidence. This surprises you? Or is it that you believe the burden is for prosecution to completely reproduce to the smallest detail the entire crime scene. Because it isn’t.
Why would anyone want his receipt for the hat? I don’t care if it was stolen or lying around.
The shoes were found in his house in a hiding place. That’s the relevant detail. What’s your point?
Whatever was said, they reached a guilty verdict.
You want a hat expert? I cut your shirt into a few pieces and now you need an expert to detetmine if it was your shirt?
It’s a safe inferential step to believe someone committing murder will try to cover it up. No speculation needed.
Guilty.
Planting DNA of 1 specific person on a crime scene is hard even if you have the cooperation of analysts, detectives and lab techs. Without, it’s damn near impossible. You don’t just go collect epithelial cells and sprinkle them.
There was blood everywhere. TV didn’t show all the photos but it did show one with German’s shirt covered.
The photo doesn’t show hair anymore than that old B+W photo shows a Loch Ness Monster.
The shoes were seen in one of RT’s own photos. They were his.
I’m sorry you’ve been lied to before. That doesn’t mean you should think literally everything is a lie. You’ll go mad. (And, of course, this is totally irrelevant to the case.)
What do you mean “didn’t find the hat”? Police did find the hat cut up. They showed it over and over. And what on earth do you mean “the blood was gone”? German was covered in blood.
Guilty:
– Means, motive, opportunity
– No alibi other than “taking a walk” that his wife didn’t know about
– DNA evidence, defense didn’t have any rebuttal other than “just don’t trust them”
– The clothes most likely to have blood weren’t found
– Shoes and hat found in Telles’ house
– Deleted messages, “Where are you?”
– Telles’ reaction to the deleted messages
– Phone records (photos, searches) show Telles was looking at German’s house
– Videos of Telles’ truck (or what appears to be Telles’ truck), only 1 video maybe shows a different driver (or Telles wearing a wig that he trashed with the shirt)
– Gait videos. Not as convincing to me, but enough to show the attacker was a similar build/walk to Telles
– Framing him doesn’t make sense. Killing German to get rid of Telles doesn’t make sense. Unless it was someone who wanted German dead and wanted to pin it on Telles, but there’s no evidence of that (to my knowledge).
I think you could find some degree of doubt on some of those, but I don’t think it’s enough to overcome all the evidence that points to Telles as the attacker
IMHO you nailed it here…Draskovich did an AMAZING job, but not enough to overcome a guilty verdict. I’m absolutely shocked the jury is still out.
MMO is not relevant – it is opinion and that leaves reasonable doubt
No alibi? LMAO – This is America, not Italy. One does not need to prove innocence
DNA – Lots of people do not trust Science or Labs and COVID gave them more rational reason
Clothes with blood not found? Thank you, that is a defense point so not sure why you present it
Shoes and Hat – When did they find the shoes? How were they missed until later? and Hat? tell us more about this hat.
Deleted messages? Really? LOL Reaction is opinion and opinions differ
Searched for address of guy that had met with and was writing news? Maybe he wanted to go by and plead with him not to publish? or to clarify? Or he was trying to find dirt on the guy that found dirt on him? Not convincing.
Gait is another one that makes me think not guilty. Don’t see it. What did the expert say on this? Maybe we need to revisit that testimony?
Framing does not make sense? Murder does not make sense either.
I think he is likely guilty, and I thought he would be convicted by now, but I could see a couple people anchoring and not budging.
MMO not relevant? There’s a take.
Yes, evidence matters, which is why 8 billion of us can be ruled out by evidence that we were somewhere else. We have an alibi.
You then turn right around and say some people don’t like evidence. Your grievances are somewhat chaotic. This is why voir dire is so important to screen out those well beyond reasonable argument.
Would you not be alarmed if someone who had left a series of angry comments about you looked up your address and paid you a visit?
These are not reasonable arguments, hence the standard.
Opinions are subjective and everyone is entitled to one, but you really seem to be ignoring the great weight of the evidence here in favor of pointing out a few spots with bare covering.
Exactly. That was the point. It was to answer the people who seemed to be mystified at why the jury was actually deliberating. I was pointing out that there were lots of things to discuss, debate, and hopefully resolve. That was the point.
Where was the gait walking expert? Where was the expert about the wood pieces in the bag? Where was discussion about why the driver looks nothing like RT? Not there. =
reasonable doubt.
The driver looks like Telles with a hoodie pulled up over his head
You know what the worst part is?
I never learned to read!
This jury is interesting…it took OJ’s jury 4 hours to get a verdict…
Wondering if this length thus far is for throwing the book at him or because of reasonable doubt..
I am rooting for Draskovich’s brilliant lawyering regardless of RT being a POS either way…
I am rooting for Draskovich. Like OJ, RT will get his comeuppance.
Question for the reasonable doubt apologists on here—so was it a DIFFERENT Denali? The conspiracy went so far as obtaining an identical vehicle as Telles, rims and all? What if Telles had left his house during the murder, in the “real” Denali? Or took a long phone call? The “framing” would have fallen apart, no?
Possible. I have seen a lot of those trucks around town. And one does not need to believe RT was framed to doubt certain parts of the case. Incompetence, errors, and coincidences all can play into someone’s belief too. Additionally, the jurors might be irrational incompetent, or lacking in intelligence. There are so many factors that could play into someone not viewing the evidence the way we view it.
Oh Please!
On such you might “reasonably” that believe that bird dogs fly south for the winter.
It’s always somebody else’s fault. Someone else is “always trying to take [Rob] down.”
https://www.fox5vegas.com/2022/09/16/bodycam-video-shows-prior-arrest-public-official-accused-killing-las-vegas-journalist/
It’s because he’s a public official! They just want to take him down because he’s a public official. He’s a public official. They just want to take him down because he’s a public official!
Lolz. By the time he committed the murder, he had lost the primary election, so he was a lame duck and was going to be out of office in four months’ time. The grand conspiracy theory might’ve had studier legs to stand on if Telles had won re-election and was going to hold office for another four years.
Verdict to be read at noon.
Guess this means guilty since they have a verdict. No way do 12 agree to Not Guilty
So we have a verdict and not a mistrial—does ANYONE on here think it could be NG? I do not.
*Nail biting suspense*
I’m so glad this fiasco is almost over.
Completely off topic from the Telles situation…
I’m looking to switch insurance carriers for my umbrella and a landlord policy (and I would consider switching auto and home too). Anyone have recommendations for a great broker?
Andrew Segal at Coreprime. He just joined there from Cornerstone.
Swarts Manning.
Anyone over there can help you. Kyle Henrie is my guy.
I am not a criminal law practitioner, but isn’t it the jury’s job to determine whether the prosecution has proven its case beyond a reasonable doubt, rather than determining whether there is reasonable doubt. I think there’s a difference — looking for reasonable doubt would place the burden on the defendant, whereas determining proof beyond reasonable doubt maintains the burden on the State. Although the defendant has introduced evidence that somehow may lead a jury to believe reasonable doubt, it’s still the State’s burden to prove that defendant committed the subject crimes. Ultimately, let’s see what the jury determines.
Tom Girardi, LA Icon
The Girardi firm was an iconic PI firm in Los Angeles that did good work ad brought in some large verdicts. Back in the day my office had many cases with his firm (med mal defense). He made a lot of money and spent a lot too. It is sad to see him sink so low ($15M verdict for defrauding clients). He has dementia, which contributed to the issues surrounding disbarment. It sounds like some of his hanger on people and ex-wife took advantage.
There is a time and place for every lawyer to hang it up.
Telles verdict is going to be read around noon according to RJ, as jury reached a verdict.
If you’re Draskovich do you use this time to prepare Telles for a guilty verdict, to try and prevent a courtroom meltdown?
if he’s guilty anyways, why would Big D care about a courtroom meltdown? If he’s found guilty, he aint getting a chance at parole
Just as a human being who may care for another human being, no legal benefit.
You prevent the meltdown because this jury is sentencing him.
Best insurance carriers/brokers to go to for home/auto/umbrella?
I like USAA.
USAA was good until 2019. Now it is an unmitigated shitshow
I second that USAA is trash. I submitted roughly $25K a homeowners’ claim last year and it’s still open. USAA claims it did not receive receipts and makes us re-submit everything multiple times, they can’t do math, not very good at reading, and fight us on everything. They also misidentified our claim, so we have to fight that every time. Very much a garbage company, 0/10 — do not recommend.
Home: American National. Auto: Geico or whoever is cheap for you, but NOT State Farm. Umbrella: Farmers
Man, what I would’ve done to have been a fly on the wall for the jury deliberations…
I selfishly hope at least one juror speaks to the media.
This case has been so interesting. Someone asked this question yesterday and I’m curious. When I was barred the go to criminal defense guys in town were Oscar, Bucky Buchanan, John Momot, Steve Stein, Frank Cremen and Bill Terry. If you had a big white collar case Gentile or Rick Wright. Most of those guys seem to be passed, retired or at least on the tail end of long careers. I don’t know Chesnoff but seems to me he only represents celebrities. Who are the go to guys/gals you would send someone to for a criminal case? I saw Draskovich in this trial but I honestly don’t know who is good at that practice area. Who do you refer to for criminal cases?
Dan Hill and Dyvid Figler have both done some exceptional work for criminal defendants.
Warren Geller or Josh Tomsheck are probably the guys at the top of the generation that’s currently in its prime. Bob Draskovich and Mike Pariente are big names that aren’t just big names, but are very good attorneys. Some of the big names, though, aren’t really that great.
Andy Leavitt is a great defense attorney, has great rapport with DAs, and can get favorable deals
Are there any prosecutors on here? Seems a DA or a City/Federal prosecutor would know who is good and who isn’t.
For a case that’s going to likely end in a jury trial, Mike Sanft, hands down.
Bros, the best criminal defense attorneys of the next generation are women: Paolo Armani, Kristina Wildeveld, Adrian Marie Lobo, etc.
Pete Christiansen
Josh Tomscheck, Chris Oram, Pete Christiansen, Ivette Maningo, Ozzie Fumo, Alzora Jackson, Lance Maningo, Paola Armeni, Robert Draskovich, Michael Pariente (DUI), Lisa Rasmussen
Is this a prosecutor recommendation?
Longtime prosecutor. For a murder case: Draskovitch, Christiansen, Oram in that order. Some others mentioned here are good attorneys, but not for murder or high stakes cases. Others listed here are not as good as they think they are, or as good as others perceive them to be.
*Alexa, play “Creed – My Own Prison” on Spotify*
What are the little circle lapel pins people in the back (defense side) are wearing?
red = “old guard”
former employees
Those are buttons with Jeff’s face on them.
17k watching live
GUILTY
The Jury’s final question: “When do we get to make the Bad Man Fly?”
Love got
Yesterday’s “pRePaRe fOr tHe AcQuItTaL oF tHe cEnTuRy” crowd is sure quiet.
I think everyone knew he was guilty. The question was level of reasonable doubt. Lots of good discussion. Jury did their job and came to the right result. Bravo to our judicial system!
He’ll be vindicated on appeal and if not on appeal then on state habeas and if not on state habeas then federal habeas and if not federal habeas, then his second federal habeas should clean it up (once SCOTUS takes up the cause)
Key & Peele, Deez Nuts guy sketch. That is how annoying you people are.
Really, Rita?
Wow! So, the same jury is going to decide if he receives death?
The girl in blue was there again! Nice.
DP isn’t on the table. Life with or without.
Wolfson just said this case is not a death penalty case. The jury will get to consider the lying in wait, the deadly weapon, and that German was elderly.
Wolfson said there are three options for penalty phase:
1. Life without parole
2. Life with parole after mandatory 20 years
3. Mandatory 50 years with minimum parole eligibility after the 50.
3. is 20 – 50 and there’s an elder enhancement
https://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/nrs-193.html#NRS193Sec167
blog is dead
What was RT’s reaction to the verdict?
He knew when a verdict came back that he was cooked. Hung his head and shook his head.
I got the impression from his body language that he knows he is guilty and was not surprised by the verdict despite holding out hope that someone might find some reasonable doubt and let him off the hook.
He was looking away from the jury, almost hiding his face right before the verdict was read. Definitely scared of what he was about to hear.
Rob took it stoically, all things considered. I fully expected a messy melt down and he held it together. You have to think Draskovich prepped him emotionally for this. Telles handled it much better than when he was denied bail.
For the penalty phase, can Telles present mitigating circumstances himself through narrative testimony again?
Draskovich can do the mitigating testimony because it would not have to involve adducing perjury.
News Flash Rita: your office is still an unmitigated shitshow. Rob didn’t fix that but neither have you.
Interesting twist – the Marshall who stood behind Rob while the verdict was read was Randy Hawkes. Marshall Hawkes was assigned to probate for years. He was the guy who would run pro se litigants out of the court room when they got mouthy with Yamashita (good times, good times). He and Rob know each other quite well as they saw and talked with each other every Friday for years.
Also, RH is a hell of a nice guy. One of my very favorite people are Marshalls down at the RJC.
Rest In Peace, Jeff German
RT, look what you did. The Germans are such a nice family. Shame on you. Jeff’s siblings are so well spoken and composed.
I’m glad Telles has to listen to this. This is the human you took and the family you took him from.
Predictable Fox News headline: “Dem Vegas politician accused of killing journalist found guilty.”
CNN headline: Trump calling for calm created this tragedy.
Telles is now unburdened by what has been.
148 Wins.
Genius!!!!
I’m hard core conservative but u nailed that almost exactly. Look at Fox news right now
You should sell your soul and join the staff. Actual headline: “Robert Telles verdict: Dem Vegas politician accused of killing journalist found guilty”
Draskovich can sleep well knowing he gave that POS everything the Constitution requires, and more. Don’t spend any emotional effort on this Rob, this is not your loss. This criminal case showed what a working justice system should be.
Not one tear from Telles still. If I was a man wrongfully convicted of murder, I would be hysterical. Prison life will suit him well.
It looks like Telles might be starting to tear up while Jeff’s sister talks about what a great uncle he was.
I thought I was tough – I can’t watch this family members
The life in prison thing is sinking in, I don’t think it has anything to do with empathy or remorse
Through the book at Rob! Maximum penalty. No parole for you Rob!!
*throw
The family testimony is hard to watch. He’s doing life w/o regardless I don’t know why he wants to put the family and jury through this.
What we often overlook is that sentencing phases are not really about the perpetrator often. Draskovich did a good job of making it about the women and children in Telles’s life. I think Rob is absolutely guilty of a heinous crime. Take the other factors out and I would have considered DP if the DA had gone for it after seeing the evidence. But thinking about showing mercy and grace to his wife and mother would be hard to overlook.
If your spouse was convicted of murder, would you testify in the penalty phase on their behalf? I would.
If my spouse had cheated on me prior to murdering someone, I’d probably testify against her. But I’m a petty asshole.
RT’s wife seems lovely and well-spoken. He effed up his family real good.
May is collateral damage to his acts and hubris. His children are collateral damage. My heart goes out to them.
Telles is super creepy. When the camera pans over to him it looks like he’s consciously trying to show emotions on his face like a human. Jeff German’s family is so dignified and it’s so sad to think that they lost him in such a horrible, violent attack. Thinking of the fear and pain he felt in his last minutes is too much. I don’t think I’d be able to hold it together like they did.
He’s wiping his eyes, but there are no tears.
German’s sisters’ loss was 720 days ago. They did an amazing job of keeping it together and painting a picture of him with grace. Telles’s wife and children are dealing with their loss today (which they probably knew was coming).
This is gut wrenching. My heart goes out to the German family and RT’s family.
Question for criminal attorneys. Is the preparation of penalty phase witnesses part of your regular trial prep in the event that you lose? I always assumed there was more time given for preparation of this phase.
If you are intending to have the jury do sentencing (which Telles always was going to do after his run-ins with Judge Leavitt) you had to be ready to go whenever the jury entered a verdict.
Thank you. Is opting to have the jury do sentencing pretty rare?
The prosecution, defendant, and defense counsel all have to agree to waive the penalty hearing and agree to let the judge sentence. NRS 175.552(2). It’s probably rare to waive.
Also, does the jury have to be unanimous on the penalty choice?
I got curious and it appears they do:
“2. In a case in which the death penalty is not sought, if a jury is unable to reach a unanimous verdict upon the sentence to be imposed, the trial judge shall impose the sentence.”
NRS 175:556(2)
https://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/nrs-175.html#NRS175Sec556
In his comments to the media, Wolfson was very gracious to Draskovich and Horvath, mentioning them by name and saying they did a great job. I like that.
I am the law student he groped and I urge the jurors to not grant Rob parole.
Draskovich talking about justice and mercy is the anti-Boyd K Packer. This almost feels like a Gospel Doctrine lesson.
Did Draskovich talk about playing with the little factory? When did I miss that?
Would have had Pam do the sentencing.
I’m one of Hamner’s critics (of his cross of Telles). His sentencing close was really good. It was solemn and measured.
Draskovich is Bussin!
Had to look up the word “bussin.” It is slang for excellent or delicious. Does this mean that Draskovich is 1. an excellent lawyer; 2. attractive; or 3. some combination thereof?
Which penalty would you assess?
Life without
Life with
or 50 years with.
For me, it’s life with possibility of parole
Same for me. Life with possibility of parole after 20.
Life without. He killed a journalist for exercising his First Amendment rights. The is the United Fucking States of America, not some third world hell hole. We do not kill journalists or people because of what they say. Period. This alone should be the end of the analysis. But, the killing was also grisly and Telles was willing to lie and lie and lie. Life without.
Agreed. Don’t also forget that Telles was a licensed attorney. As every licensed attorney has done in Nevada, he swore an oath to support and defend the Constitutions of the United States and Nevada. He took that same oath again when he took office as Clark County Public Administrator. That means, in at least some measure, Telles was obligated on those oaths to not commit crimes and to not subvert First Amendment freedoms.
Society should expect the best conduct from those who hold public trusts, and society should demand harsh punishments for those who violate the public trust in as heinous a fashion as Telles did here. Telles should’ve gotten life without.
Say u were barred in 2024 without saying u were
Exactly how did he violate the public trust? If he was a DA who used his position as a DA to score discounts on pharmaceuticals in exchange for lenient sentencing, that’s a violation of the public trust. If he used his position as Public Administrator to pull off some sweet real estate deals for his buddies, that’s a violation of the public trust. If he was a cop who pulled someone over, put them in handcuffs, and abused them, that’s a violation of the public trust.
Rob was just an asshole with a vendetta.
That’s a fairly narrow view of being a public officeholder and what it means to act at all times consistently with the public trust vested in all public officers. It doesn’t bring disrepute upon the State and upon other public officers when one chooses to commit first degree murder? It doesn’t bring disrepute on the legal profession when an attorney commits a first degree murder? I guess I expect more from attorneys and public officers than you do.
No, it doesn’t bring disrepute on the legal profession when an attorney does something that breaks the law but which has nothing to do with the practice of law. Does it bring disrepute to the legal profession when an attorney commits suicide? When their marriage breaks up? Gets a reckless driving citation? Files for bankruptcy? I mean, at what point is “the public trust” just another club you use to beat people with?
So aggravated first degree murder is on par with suicide, divorce, reckless driving, and filing for bankruptcy protection. Got it.
Would Jeff German be any less dead if Rob wasn’t a member of the bar? Keep in mind that you don’t have to be an attorney to be the Public Administrator. John Cahill wasn’t.
Rob is guilty. He should go to prison. He will likely die there. His crime had nothing to do with his bar card or the office he held. Wanting to enhance his sentence because “he broke the public trust” is just silly.
Life with parole after 20 years, assuming he won’t make his first parole date, puts him into his 70s before he is released. Seems like sufficient punishment to me. Life w/o is good for vengeance and nothing else.
I’m a crime and punishment type guy. Also, I do believe in second chances (in most circumstances).
20 years – at minimum – is a long time to sit and reflect on your actions. Yes, Telles actions are inexcusable, but I do think that after, at least, 20 years Telles should be afforded a second chance.
Parole when he finds the real killers. Until then he can rot.
He’ll never get 20 years regardless. Even if the jury gives him 20 the enhancement knocks him up another 10 I’d guess. If he’s 48, he’d be getting out of jail at 78. Given prison life expectancy rates I’d be surprised if he lived that long.
Life without. I cannot identify one mitigating factor that would warrant coming off of life without.
After hearing from his wife and mother, Life With. His mom may never see him free again but it would give her hope.
I haven’t seen any remorse at all. Just his BS claim that he didn’t do it. There should be no mercy where there is no remorse.
“He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, Shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.”
Proverbs 29:1
Life without parole.
Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell. Wo unto the murderer who deliberately killeth, for he shall die.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
Matthew 7:1-3
A life sentence tempered by the mere possibility of parole is not too lenient. If he maintains his improbable claim that he was framed, he is unlikely to be granted parole.
And depending on how long the sentencing enhancement that the Judge metes out and how it interacts with the jury’s sentence, coupled with RT’s age, there’s a real possibility he dies in prison before becoming parole eligible anyway.
The odds that this was a life sentence handed down yesterday are very high. He is going to do 3 decades in miserable conditions with deplorable healthcare. He is going to have to hope he makes it to 75 which is far below the actuarial expectations for prisoners on a murder rap.
If I understand it correctly, Leavitt will sentence him on the enhancements later on. If the jury gives him 20-Life, I would almost guarantee she adds an extra 5 plus years to that sentence.
She’s definitely giving closer to 8 to 15.
I think the max is 8-20. Does no one here appear in front of her? I have a lot. It will be the max.
As it should be.