- Quickdraw McLaw
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Inspired by the commenter at 3:18 who is entering semi-retirement and leaving the state today, we want to know when and where you plan to retire. Are you going to pull a Sam Lionel and keep working here forever or are you out the door to a small fishing village in Portugal the day you turn 62? Have you already got plans in motion? What tips have you heard about retirement?
Retire early. Live part time in South America. Do some meaningful pro bono work when I am in country. And maybe some while I am out. It's sad watching lawyers with skills sit around in retirement and do nothing when there is such a need for legal services and taking on a few cases would probably meaningfully extend and improve the quality of their lives.
This isn't too bad – if you do pro bono and it's exactly what you want that's one thing. Work forever? I'd be in hell.
Pro Bono – meh. I through the years have taken pro bono cases. Yes, at first it felt meaningful, especially when I was able to pull a good result out of a shit bag case. But the clients often seemed to think they were owed representation, and often only got a minimal thank you. I did get a hug once. Pro bono, been there, done that. Definitely not in retirement.
10:23 – my experience is that CAP kids and asylum seekers don't feel entitled to attorneys.
I agree – some pro bono clients feel they are entitled. I nip that right away. Each month, every pro bono client gets an invoice – documenting how much they would pay, except for the fact they are pro bono and aren't required to pay. The first time I gave a client such an invoice, she broke down in tears and became the perfect client afterwards.
Somewhere in the middle. Not trying to have any kind of billing requirement or other people outside the family depend on my rainmaking. Probably some one off contract remote work and pro bono to keep the skills sharp but will be a part time citizen of the desert at best in retirement.
I decided to retire more than a year ago. I have not yet pulled the plug because I haven't figured out what the heck I will do. Unlike many, I actually like practicing, but the idea of working until I die or become incompetent is not appealing. I suppose I need a purpose or hobby (golf is not a purpose, thank you).
It will be. 😁
Call LASN (https://www.lacsn.org/) they will help you find a purpose, or the Sr. law program (https://snslp.org/). Honestly, I don't get why more semi-retired lawyers don't do it. It seems like every lawyer wants to stay connected to the law, or reconnect to what they once liked about the law, in retirement. You can take as many or as few as you want and it works to keep you sharp or to find the fulfilment you searched for your whole career.
Knowing when to pull the plug is hard. I've been trying to "semi-retire" for the last year or so, but keep saying "ok I'll just take this one case," and on and on. I think I have to just set a date and stick to it. I will switch my malpractice to a tail policy next year and that will force me to do it.
For almost 25 years now, I've found Las Vegas a miserable place to live, but a great place to work. As I head toward retirement, I have a little bit of regret that I spent so many years living in this barren wasteland just so I could earn a good living. On the other hand, the money I've made here will allow me to comfortably retire at about 64 and move away while still having some of my life left to enjoy.
I'll go back to the small town I grew up in. People take time to enjoy life there. My wife was raised in Las Vegas and can't wait to leave. For under $500k, we can buy a beautiful home with land and trees in the same neighborhood I was raised. The winters are a little colder there; but they're infinitely more tolerable than the summers here. Many of my best friends are still there.
I don't know if I'll work or not. Maybe I'll do some mediations and arbitrations or maybe I'll take a part time job as a municipal judge. Maybe I won't work and just get coffee a few days a week with my friends, work in my yard, and spend quality time with my wife.
It's said that you can't go home again, and maybe there's some truth to that; but I'm going to give it a shot. Three decades in Las Vegas is enough.
9:51 AM-Small town where? Others have said when they went back to their hometown they missed a lot of what Las Vegas has to offer. Live in both places?
But for the winter driving conditions, I could easily live in Flagstaff and commute here every couple of weeks to do my arbs, short trials, etc. Some prefer Southern Utah, but I've always loved Flagstaff.
What does Las Vegas have to offer?
Shitty public schools.
Unbearably hot summers.
Absence of natural vegetation.
Dust.
Traffic.
Unfriendly people.
Dearth of culture.
Over-the-top materialism.
Increasing crime and vagrancy.
Corrupt government.
I could see myself in the future living far, far up north for 4-6 months in the summer time and living here in the "winter" time. Kind of like a reverse snowbird. Keep here as your base, but live somewhere in Idaho, Montana, eastern Washington, upper Midwest, etc., that has real seasons, some class, and a nice house on a couple of acres.
@5:32p – I know a couple who both retired and for the past ~8 years I've known them they spend 6 months here in Green Valley (October through March) on their ~1/5th acre neighborhood house on my street, and 6 months in North Dakota (April through September) in the built-for-them guest house of their daughter's ~1,000 some-odd acre farm.
Law has provided a comfortable living. The earliest I could "retire" by which I mean live as inexpensively as possible from savings is about 10 years away. I like to think I'll do something grand in retirement, but I'll probably just stick around home wondering why the kids don't call.
Retirement is not realistic for many. Expenses, kids in college, kids moving back and divorce. I think a lot of it has to do with inheritance. Nice bonus if you inherit a million here and there. Government pensions are great but you have to live on smaller income which is hard. There have been a lot of booms and busts in Vegas.The last Great Recession (2008 to 2011) hurt a lot of lawyers. So did the real estate bust. What about folks graduating today with enormous debt. The price of housing. Times are good but for how long?
Not realistic? Why not? An easy resolution to all those problems you identify: Live below your means.
Retirement is about as realistic as it gets. One way or another, ready or not, you will be retired someday. (There is of course an option to drop dead in harness).
That's victim mentality, 10:46. As 11:03 says, live within your means. If you can't afford to pay cash for something, you can't afford that thing. The only exception to that is a house that you're going to live in.
ok boomers
A lot of the financial pressures lawyers face could be ameliorated if our local courts decide to keep their COVID policies of permitting remote appearances for most hearing matters. For many of us, the great majority of our legal work can be performed remotely in lower-cost areas of the country, provided we can return to town as needed.
That financial flexibility would permit more of us to take pro bono and low bono work, as well as avoid working the sorts of crazy hours that lead to other social and health problems we hear too much about in our profession.
11:21 rents his residence
I will die in my office chair. I'm working to build generational wealth so all the kids each have summer homes when they are in their twenties. Will also buy each of them their first home outright.
lol, this is why wealth skips a generation. My kids are getting a college education and a car, everything else I'm squandering
Generational wealth, Pointless. When you are gone the grand kids will barely remember you and will never give a thought of thanks for your "dying in your chair". The great grand kids won't even know your name and will squander their inheritance.
Better to retire and spend on yourself and spouse. The kids get whatever is left over.
Slave to the genetic waste.
I retired at the age of 52. I loved the law but hated the glad handing that went with the business side of the practice.
I retired to Utah at age 55 – never been happier. I'm a big fish in very, very teeny tiny pond haha
Financially, how did you do this?
2:38. Mainly by living modestly my whole life. My dad was a financial advisor and stock broker part of his life and really, really impressed upon me to save as I went. As this is anon, I'll share a little more. By the time I retired I had a little over 1.5M. I bought a modest house in St. George and live off of my savings (not just interest but drawing down some but my needs are modest). Also, I was joking about being a big fish – there is a LOT of money up here in St. George, a lot of people retire here with big bucks. So overall, my advice – save and live modestly in retirement.
I figure I'm at least 15 years from retirement. I've started looking at where I might go. Las Vegas has a lot of nice things about it, but I'm not sure I'll stay. I've looked at lists of places that have the least water issues, natural disasters, severe weather, fires, crime, etc and it's pointing me to New England or Montana. Both of them have cold weather though and I'm not sure I'm ready to shovel snow instead of sunshine. It's a process though. I guess the kids could affect where I end up too, but at the least I think I'm going to split my time between Vegas and somewhere else.
Probably a HUGE difference in cost of living from New England and rural Montana
Most areas in the U.S., the winters there are less nasty than the summers here, unless you are someone who's very warm-blooded and grew up in a very warm climate. The only area that I can think of that has winters would be worse than here would be Buffalo, N.Y., or surrounding areas, with their 15+ blizzards/snowstorms per winter.
I wouldn't wish my worst enemy a winter in Buffalo.
I always assume the attorneys (and others) that pull a Sam Lionel didn't properly plan their retirement or save money and have no choice BUT to work. I know they say it's because they love their job, but I don't believe them. It's poor retirement planning or financial management. And, yes, they may drive Ferraris or whatever (I have no clue), but that doesn't mean they're liquid, that means they have good credit (and thus, can't retire because they have to pay off their loans. Lionel Sawyer being a great example of why you don't live on credit).
Other than poor financial management aspect, I can't imagine how uncomfortable it must be working so late in life. I'm not even middle age and I have these new weird body aches. I can't imagine being 102 and doing this job. No thank you.
2:05 Hit it right on the nose. I was speaking with a very prominent criminal defense lawyer about this very thing a couple of weeks ago. He said some of those old guys never retire because 1) their entire identity is tied up in the law and 2) they like the fight. It's rarely about $$ for those guys.
Sounds right. I was born to do what I do and will die doing it. Glory be to God.
Speaking of Sam LIonel–did he die with a substantial estate. There were all kinds of rumors and stories about his success and whether he died nearly broke. Some said he did not want to keep funding and running Lionel Sawyer. Does anyone know? Lionel was a prominent attorney who was quite well off at one time or so it seemed.
Yes, there were quite a few commenters when he passed who stated he essentially died penniless.
Mr. Lionel died with more money than Bob Eglet and 10 other highly sucessful PI lawyers in Nevada combined. He and Sawyer made big bucks from real estate deals sent to them by a real estate insider by the last name of Morris. Together they owned one of the corners of Eastern and Trop and many other great similar locations, including the Valley Bank Building with other limited partners (Irv Molasky et al). Wife # 2, Pat Uchitel's family owned the El Morrocco night club in Manhattan and the Eden Vale hotel in Miami. He lived well and enjoyed money but did not waste it. The second generation lost the firm all on their own.
5:04 PM–Who inherited or benefited from Sam Lionel's estate if that is the case. By the way, Bob Eglet is either close a billionaire or is a billionaire.
I’ll probably keep working and just reduce my caseload. I’d get bored without something to do, but I definitely don’t want to grind forever.
If you gotta grind – do it on the poker felt!
I retired in my mid-50s! I left my job with my middle fingers flying, and I will never looked back. I refuse to ever have to say “your honor” again to a miserable lot of hypocritical people in black robes. There are very few, and truthfully none that deserve my respect. I bought a house in a much smaller town and inexpensive state, and I kept my NV residence for the tax shelter. Live below your means and invest your extra money sensibly. Yes, you can cut back and make that happen. Get a financial advisor, if you are not willing to spend the time to educate yourself.
My retirement plans are based entirely on the need to stay away from my spouse as much as humanly possible. An active legal practice right up to the end is part of that plan. Only take time off when the kids and grand kids are visiting.
Sorry to hear. Your physical wellness and life span would probably improve with a divorce.