- Quickdraw McLaw
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Yesterday there was news about a jury convicting Paul Manafort and, separately, Trump lawyer Michael Cohen entering into a plea agreement implicating President Trump in violations of campaign finance law. Here’s a look at six takeaways from the Cohen plea from the NY Times. Any predictions on where this goes now?
I predict a renewed debate over the use of "pleaded" vs "pled" as the proper past-tense and past-participle of the word plead; beyond that probably the downfall of the republic as we know it.
I prefer "pleaded" when used to mean "begged," and "pled" when used to mean "answered a legal charge."
agree with @8:54.
Upvote 8:54. I know technically pleaded is the standard form, but it just sounds off. The people have spoken: it's pled.
You're wrong. It's pleaded.
Every dictionary I've looked at says pleaded, pled, or even plead (which is ore consistent with the similar word read) are fine, except in the UK, where you have to use pled.
Wgas, I have seen it both ways.
WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE
KILL ALL THE MEXICANS. (i.e., wake the hell up, Hispanic Republicans/conservatives!)
Does average American care more that Mollie Tibbetts' killer was an illegal alien (disclaimer: used in the technical legal sense; not a pejorative sense) than they do about Manafort/Cohen? Seems that outside of New York/Washington D.C. the news about Manafort/Cohen may not have much of an impact on a political front. Legal impact on president of Manafort/Cohen remains to be seen.
Depends who you are. Trump supporters care more about an illegal alien killing seome as it plays into their story. Dems care more about Manafort and Cohen. Both are important but to claim a random killing is more important than someone implicating a sitting president in a crime is absurd.
Oh it has a huge impact outside of New York/Washington. Locally you are not seeing the impact because our major daily paper has a lead story on its website "Treehouse’ entertainment complex coming to downtown Las Vegas." Manafort/Cohen is not even on the first page.
Some people need to reread the Manafort/Cohen stories, there is no implication of the President in a crime, only tangential relationships to those who have committed crimes
Some people need to reread the definitions of "conspiracy" and "accessory" if they believe that the Cohen story does not implicate the President in a crime.
@9:04 – What crimes has Trump committed? "Random" killings by illegal immigrants are pervasive in this country. If you had a child murdered or raped by an individual who should not be in this country you might feel differently. To suggest illegal immigration is not a massive problem in the US is, to use your word, absurd. What's more absurd is how the major news outlets pretend that the issue is "legal" immigration or that this issue is somehow racist. Do your homework – drugs, guns, sex trafficking….all pervasive among illegal immigrants. And Trump did what? Entered into a non disclosure agreement with a porn star? Fired a puke of an FBI director? These debates are so interesting to me because I fail to see any issue with Trump that is new information – voters knew who they were electing. A loudmouth playboy who makes a lot of stupid comments on twitter. So what – he's making policy choices that are putting more money in my pocket, getting people back to work and making our country safer. So yes – the Molly Tibbets story is important. I'll tell you what's also important – a massive hurricane is headed towards Hawaii which could cause massive devastation – haven't seen or heard boo about that today.
"a massive hurricane is headed towards Hawaii which could cause massive devastation – haven't seen or heard boo about that today."
9:44, you haven't seen it because Fox News is too busy running Guiliani smokescreens. NPR included it in every broadcast.
And I'm a Republican.
@9:50 – @9:04 here – I watched the Today show this morning, haven't seen Fox. Al Roker reported on it. I didn't mean to imply that I hadn't heard about it at all – presumed the fact that I mentioned it implied I had, in fact, heard about it. Point is – mainstream media spent 15 minutes on Cohen and Manafort as top news when neither of those issues impacts anyone other than pundits who like to debate. Cohen's plea will not impact Trump, or me. Sorry Nancy Pelosi.
Harvard Law professor emeritus Alan Dershowitz, a frequent defender of the president, made a similar argument.
“You have to show that it’s a crime,” he told “Fox & Friends.” He said it’s “not a crime” for a candidate like Trump to contribute to his own campaign, and probably not even a crime to direct someone else to contribute if he plans to pay that back.
Further, Dershowitz said, “The only evidence that the president did anything that might be unlawful … comes from a man who’s admitted to be a liar.”
“There are a lot of barriers,” he said, “We’re far away from [an] impeachable offense or a criminal offense on the part of the president.”
"probably not even a crime to direct someone else to contribute if he plans to pay that back." Note that "probably."
Yeah, it's a long ways away from saying a conviction would be a slam dunk, but if you're saying the details of the Cohen plea don't show that Trump was involved you're lying to yourself.
And screw the legal issues. I want to know if a candidate for POTUS ran with fraudulent lobbyists and paid off porn stars and playmates to influence an election. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Just admit it, mainstream Republicans! Trump is a terrible, divisive human being and president, and it was a mistake to vote for him. Quit supporting and defending Trump and help the rest of us get rid of him. This way, your party could save face and gain credibility again.
10:53 I think it is a bit naive to think that any candidate for POTUS has not spent time in the company of fraudsters. Clinton/Bush/Obama all were alleged to be affiliated with unscrupulous types. Not many Sunday School teachers make it as candidates for POTUS. With regard to payments to porn stars and playmates, are you really surprised? I don't think anyone else is surprised and they really don't care.
I bet Mike Pence pre-2016 cares.
Here's the other thing. If someone is blackmailing you, it's not a crime to pay them off. In fact, the authorities often go to great lengths to keep the identities of blackmail victims secret so blackmail doesn't work (no point in reporting it to the authorities if the blackmail is going to get published anyway). How does it become a crime to pay off a blackmailer just because you're running for office (and are in fact a juicier target for blackmail). Just because paying off a blackmailer technically "furthers" a campaign as opposed to letting the blackmail get out doesn't mean you have to then report it as a "donation." That's a hell of a stretch of campaign finance law. And it would be impossible to prevent the blackmail from getting published. You either refuse to pay and get defamed, or you pay and are forced to defame yourself by reporting it anyway. No way SCOTUS upholds this kind of activity as a crime, either under the statute or the First Amendment.
I think there's a chance that Republicans turn on Trump at one day past half way through his first term. That way, Pence could theoretically serve 10 years.
Hey 9:44. Not that it matters, but the guy who allegedly killed Mollie Tibbets was purportedly in the us LEGALLY. See the article below. Even more interesting, he was employed as a worker on a farm owned by a prominent Iowa GOP official and donor.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/investigations/2018/08/22/mollie-tibbetts-alleged-killer-iowa-legally-lawyer-missing-student-body-found-brooklyn-trump/1064567002/
Read the article. We still do not know his legal status. If he had a green card, his attorney would simply state so. He did not state so. He merely states that his client being characterized as an "undocumented" immigrant was incorrect. So what documents does he have? The only circumstances under which you could characterize him as here legally, is if he had a green card. Under any other scenario he would be here illegally or under false pretenses since he was working.
Dear 2:17:
Are you stupid or trolling?
"The only circumstances under which you could characterize him as here legally, is if he had a green card. Under any other scenario he would be here illegally or under false pretenses since he was working."
There is such a thing as a work visa.
Obviously, we don't know what his status is, but it doesn't help the conversation when you pull blatantly false assertions out of your ass.
“A search of records by USCIS revealed Rivera did not make any DACA requests nor were any grants given,” USCIS spokesman Michael Bars said in a statement. “We have found no record in our systems indicating he has any lawful immigration status.”
OK, can we stop discussing this now?
Or we should at least also discuss that he was employed by one of the largest blue blood GOP families in Iowa. So basically these people are murderers and rapists and overall terrible people who need to be excluded from our country at all costs, except when I can employ them on the cheap.
Dear 3:34:
The articles states that Mr. Rivera has been living in Iowa for 4-7 years working at Yarrabee Farms. If he had an H-2 Visa, which I doubt, he exceeded his stay as such visas can only be renewed for 3 years and he would have had to return to his country of origin and reapply for a visa. Again, if he had an H-2 Visa, then his attorney should have just stated so. That would have shut everyone up, including Trump and me. Best regards.
Dear 4:02 PM,
Last night a member of "one of the largest blue blood GOP families" stated to the media that Mr. Rivera had used a false name and social security number when he obtained employment with them. Your post implies that they knew he was here illegally so they can hire him on the cheap.
9:44 — Here's the problem with your entire rationale to explain Trump's election: 46% of voters in 2016 knew what Trump had done, but they didn't necessarily know what he was capable of. Everyone said, "Oh, he will rise to the magnitude of the office, and it will change him for the better." Wrong! All Americans have a right to expect much greater things from the President of the United States than this sad excuse for a human being has the capacity to give.
10:08 — An embezzler who puts the money back before anyone knows it is missing is still an embezzler. One who aspires to the office of President of the United States should be held to a higher standard. Sadly, his apologists do not.
11:48 — OMG! I just threw up all over myself — and this country.
48 hours ago, we uploaded a Notice of Posting Costs Bond. Not a complex document. Still sitting in the queue.
Interestingly, the NRCP revision committee took up the issue of e-filing and e-service and noted that e-service is practically useless if filing and service aren't instantaneous, like in the federal system. Tellingly, the clerks of the Second and Eighth Judicial District Courts and of the Supreme Court objected to adhering to the federal system. Why is not clear. See Apr. 25, 2018 Minutes, pp. 2-3, available at https://nvcourts.gov/AOC/Committees_and_Commissions/NRCP/Documents/Minutes/NRCP_Meeting_Minutes_-_April_25,_2018/
Personally, I don't know why we need this "review first, file later" approach. The federal method works fine, even when there are problems with filing form. The whole idea of service is to give a party notice not just that a document was submitted to a court, but that it was filed in that court. Being given notice of a submitted but unfiled document is meaningless.
9:47 is spot on
Really makes ya wonder if the clerks understand what their job is.
They have no idea what their job is and really do not care. As far as Steve Grierson is concerned, everything is working as it should. Clueless and apathetic.
Manafort convictions are unrelated to Trump. Cohen plea deal is largely unrelated and I would believe he lied about the Trump campaign contribution "crime" to lighten the harsh tax fraud sentence he was facing, or minimally embellished. Cohen is going to jail for tax fraud, not for paying off Trump's whore(s). It's pretty comical to watch all the major news outlets promote these two stories as some major issue for Trump. Also – this is a serious question I would like to know the answer to – if Trump knew Cohen was entering into a confidentiality agreement with Stormi and would be paying it with his own money – how is that a campaign violation? I thought an individual wasn't limited in the amount they contributed to their own campaign? This whole mess stinks of taxpayer funded bullying by Manaforts team. That's the annoying part. Trump was elected. Get over it. He was a playboy, everyone knew that. What's the crime for Trump? FYI – I'm not even a "Trump supporter" but the handling of this nonsense is pushing me to have a complete lack of respect for democrats and complete mistrust of our department of justice. It's all pretty stupid.
I agree that the the manafort issue is really not related to Trump. But why do Trump and the faithful continue to call him a "brave man" and an all around victim? He is a convicted felony who cheated on millions in taxes. As for Cohen, believe what you want, but you cannot deny that Trump lied about on multiple occasions. This is what bothers me.
I can deny Trump lied about it because I don't believe he did. He was asked on air force one if he knew about the payment and he said no. He later clarified that he found out later. He didn't know about the payment at the time and he has never changed his story. The news constantly spins his comments to fit their narrative. Drives me crazy.
Except for the tape which Cohen made in which Trump discusses the payment BEFORE it was made. You know, evidence.
Evidence and facts don't matter to the 9:54s of the world.
Who cares about facts when you can just believe he didn't do it? There's so much less cognitive dissonance.
Absolutely amazing that the LVRJ doesn't even have the words Manafort or Cohen on the front page of its website. Welcome to the company town.
Huhn, the RJ had "Cohen pleads guilty; Manafort convicted". It was front page today on the print edition. Nearly all newspapers today are nothing more than reprints of AP newswires.