- law dawg
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With today being Pi day, we thought we would post a topic on what piece of the pie you’re getting these days. If you’re a partner at a firm, what percentage of what you bring in are you actually getting? If you’re an associate, what percentage are you getting on cases you bring in? Have you noticed any trends in these numbers–are your shares getting smaller or bigger?
If you’re on the plaintiffs’ side of things, what share are you getting versus what your client is getting. Is 40% the new 1/3? Any trends you’re seeing?
Partner in a 5-lawyer firm (3 partners, 2 associates). Quiet civil practice representing a few long-time clients. I produce about $700-800k/year in collected fees myself. Whole firm produces ~$2.5m. Top line on my 1040 is ~$400k.
We know there is more money to be made doing volume PI work; but the thought of dealing with all that has kept us from wading into those waters. We don’t want to subject ourselves or our staff to that world.
Something trending since the pandemic: Good legal staff costs a lot more than it used to. Most legal staff people now are lazy and incompetent. They’re easy to find, but they’re terrible and don’t last long. We’ve weeded them out. We have great staff now; but our staff payroll costs more than ever before. And not a little more, a lot more. We see no other option than to just suck it up.
Compared to years past, legal staff personnel, in general, are now far less reliable, less willing to learn, less competent, take more time off, and do less work overall. I’m not some back-in-the-day 40 year practitioner; I started in 2004. There is a big difference between then and now.
Your analysis of staffing issues in the last few years is dead on. Few want to work, learn and earn more… they feel we should pay them more for showing up.
percentages have declined to senior attorney’s at our firm because of staff costs and associate costs. That leaves less for the Partners.
Dead on as the other comment says.
20+ year Solo here.
That said. Keep it small and keep it all. Gives you the flexibility to be as generous as you want to good staffers. One long time FT paralegal and one FT legal secretary cost me combined, with bennies and bonuses just under $200k. Net to me in 2023 was $425k and total revenue was a hair under $1.1M
What r u spending the other 600k on if I might ask, excuse txting please
Overhead, case financing and company nest egg. I gauge how much I leave sitting in the bank, with how much in taxes I feel like paying at the end of the year.
Yes. And just a lot more issues of someone calling out because “my step-grandfather’s nephew is in the hospital” etc. I don’t mind paying people who are reliable and do good work, but it seem that the work ethic is not there.
20+ solo above here. That shit don’t fly with me. Its either real or its not PTO. Too many BS call outs and you’re gone. I am a very fair and generous employer, be fair with me. I canned a law clerk a few years ago for this very thing and told him don’t bother putting me on your resume.
Fkn Boyd grads.
Paid Time Off = PAID. TIME. OFF. None of this “only if it’s convenient for me” or “only if you convince me that you need it.”
You either offer PTO as a benefit, or you don’t. Don’t lie to your staff.
Agreed EXCEPT. . . . (1)You schedule your vacation and a trial gets scheduled, yeah cant dump a trial on the firm if the Court is not giving you an exception (This is for attorneys. Secretaries/Paraprofessionals can be more flexibly moved around in our firm). (2) Likewise scheduled PTO is a benefit. However the BS excuse that you are taking paid day at 8:57 am because you have just decided that today is not a day you feel like coming to work is very different. We try to accommodate those if its a rainy Friday and there is nothing scheduled but those are scrutinized and short-leashed otherwise.
“However the BS excuse that you are taking paid day at 8:57 am because you have just decided that today is not a day you feel like coming to work is very different”
How so? If someone wakes up feverish and calls in sick and then uses a benefit to still be paid that day, where is the distinction between calling in and using a benefit to still be paid on a day they feel they can’t be at work, ready to use their best efforts?
If work isn’t getting completed, that’s a performance issue. Not a PTO issue.
Sick time is PTO (if verified)
You cant use Sick time unless you are actually sick. I don’t do “personal day PTO”
OK, Gen Z aka Entitled Snowflake
(not that I am obligated to explain myself to you)
PTO, at my firm is specifically delineated as Sick time or Vacation. PERIOD.
Vacation just needs to be scheduled in advance and Sick Time needs to be verified by a Drs. Note. (Without waiving any rights, I expressly reserve the right to waive this requirement at anytime in a case by case basis to employees that earn my trust).
If I deem it necessary, no proof no “PTO”.
Its my house and my rules. Don’t like it go somewhere else. Like I said, I am a very fair and generous employer. Be fair with me.
Nope. Not Gen Z. Gen X. My staff knows they can take unscheduled PTO because shit happens, man. And they do. And it’s okay. It’s my job to make sure everyone has the tools they need to be at peak performance. One of those jobs is time away, without me breathing down their neck about how they are using it. They earned it by being full-time employees; they get to use it.
Completely agree (I am also Gen X). My staff knows the same, however, I have fired the occasional employee that wants to take advantage and play games.
Like I have said repeatedly, I am fair, you be fair.
Looking for feedback here…i am a 10 yr atty in the Plaintiff PI world. I am an associate at my firm and have done several first chair trials, most with successful verdicts. I generate many referrals on my own on top of litigating the firm’s cases. I settle well over $5M every year (thats being conservative). Based on these factors, what should my base pay be? (I do not get commission on firm cases, only my own)
Your base salary should be whatever you think it should be. If you are as good as you appear on paper, take a couple good cases, get TF out and do it on your own. Just takes a little juevos.
Small firm owner here. 5 attorneys total. If you generate $5 million in fees yourself you should make at least $750k. If it is all litigation files, then you should make double that. Prelit doesn’t take as much work and can be lay downs sometimes.
My assumption is that on $5m in settlements, you’re producing about $1.7m in collected fees. If that’s the case, your boss should be paying you about half of that. If you can produce that volume on your own, leave your boss and you’ll make a lot more. It’s not as scary as you think it is and in most cases you’ll be making more almost immediately.
Your base pay should be, I need to get the heck out of here, and open my own shingle. You got the skills and experience. Im sure you can do a Jerry Maguire and take your staff with you. Time to hit up the SBA for a loan. Something to think about.
Personal injury–10 year associate. The firm should split the attorney’s fees with you fifty-fifty per cent on cases that you bring to the firm. Your salary should be substantial based on their cases and your work.
Agree with the caveat of “Bring and work.” If you are rainmaker but not working the files, 50% is a bit high unless its your name on the door (in which case your 50% is tied to retained earnings).
My last year in private practice I was paid just over 1/3rd of my fee production.
Firm of 7 attorneys. I am the managing partner, Our model is pretty simple. On collected fees
-> 33% to the person who worked it
-> 17% to the person who brought it in
-> 50% retained by the firm, to be subject to further distributions at bonus times.
I’m tired of grinding and getting nowhere. Personal injury seems saturated and I am not interested in that area of law. I’ve been an insurance defense attorney and I have some commercial litigation experience. What are other areas of law where i can earn a decent living and hang my own shingle. I’m not young if that makes a difference.
Don’t discount letting PI be some of your practice. Just don’t bank on the millions that come from the “advertisers”.
I love the solo Gen Practice. It keeps my ADD in check by letting me do lots of things.
Bankruptcy, both Debtor and Creditor, Commercial Lit. Light Criminal (let the specialists handle the kiddie rapers and murderers) PI and a little family law to remind me how much I love my wife and kids.