- Quickdraw McLaw
- Firm Spotlight
- 32 Comments
- 1756 Views
One of our readers recently asked for more information on Nevada’s law firm, Alverson, Taylor, Mortensen, & Sanders. ATMS, which began as a partnership between Bruce Alverson and Nevada’s favorite senator, Harry Reid, was founded in 1977. According to its website, the firm specializes in civil litigation, medical malpractice, construction defects, and “numerous” other specialities.
Our predecessor devoted quite a bit of coverage to the happenings at ATMS, which is coincidentally among the first links to pop up when you search for Alverson and sweatshop. Is it really a sweatshop? Depends on who you ask. Is it a great place to work? Depends on who you ask. Who has worked there? A lot of people.
So, help out one of our readers by giving us an update on ATMS. Do they still do the summer associate program? Is the turnover rate better or worse than any other firm?
I know a lot of attorneys who've spent some there, and overall the experiences were positive, if not long term.
The few that have remained and are now partners are, for the most part strong attorneys and pleasant to deal with.
For new attorneys, I think it is a decent place to cut your teeth and get some real litigation experience, and get a chance to observe some very good litigators .
Here's my experience with ATMS. I went to school out of state. They set up an in person interview with me. AS I AM DRIVING TO ATMS (having already flown across the country, rented a car, etc), they call and cancelled. I kid you not. Needless to say, I have less than warm feelings towards the firm.
@12:09 PM: That was a seriously dick move on their part. Did you show up anyway and demand an interview? That's what I would have done. If they still refused, I'd just take a dump in their lobby.
I've been opposite ATMS, and I feel bad for the attorneys that work there. I don't think they're bad attorneys, but they're forced to grind to the point that they don't have time to do good work. It's probably a good learning experience, but no thanks.
@2:43,
12:09 here. You're damned right I showed up anyway. Their "recruiter" (when you have high turnover, you hire one of these apparently) refused to let me even speak with an attorney. I ended up getting a much better job at a much better firm, but every time I drive by ATMS on Charleston, my blood BOILS.
9:19—Nice comment Erik Taylor!
I'm a nurse. I walked my resume & writing sample into this firm and asked if I could hand them to the office manager. The receptionist asked,"What a writing sample?".
A nurse? With a "writing sample"…? "The receptionist asked…"
"Erik"?
Really…
I have no idea what happened in these comments. Why did a nurse apply to ATMS? Why does a nurse have a writing sample? What is the conversation with receptionist about?
ATMS has a huge summer program compared to anyone else in town. I also heard that vacation, unpaid hours, etc. is deducted from your salary. It's almost like ATMS is your broker, and the salary is their guesstimate-target.
A nurse. ATMS practises med mal. Nurses review & analyze med recs, get experts, etc. Educate attys on medical issues. Hello.
People (attorneys, maybe, for the most part?? – and nurses??), apparently feel entitled to share comments that ultimately mean nothing. If you were rejected for an interview – that is a you problem. "They were going to interview me but then they looked into me and it is apparent I… am no good…"? If you applied to a employer who has NO (as i understand it) nurses as employees and were rejected, that is a you problem. An employer offers an interview but thereafter looks further into you/achievements and determines you are not acceptable, that is a you problem. Oddly, some people express it is easy to get a job with ATMS while others are rejected out right before an interview…whatever that means….
ATMS seeks 2000 hours from associates. Taking holidays into account, this means associates are requested to bill 1920 hours. The vacation time, which is not holiday time, does not count towards the billable hours for bonus purposes although you are paid for vacation time. Bill more, you are paid more. Bill fewer hours, paid fewer $s. Almost all ATMS associates make more than their base salary, which for 1st year associates is still at least 20K – 25K more than the average starting associate attorney.
Making $90k+ out of law school seems alright? Making $150-160-170k a few years out, living in Las Vegas, seems alright? Yes, it does.
ATMS pays associates by the billable hour – with the rate based on a salary scale. Despite criticism, associates are on average paid more than peers. Again, the starting salary for a new associate is more than 20K above average. When you consider peers – remember that very few new associates make $110k – $115 or whatever $ the very few associates make at firms such as Snell & Wilmer or Greenberg T. or Fennemore Craig or Ballard Spahr. ATMS allows associates to exceed it. Making $120k, 150k, 170k three years out is appealing.
ATMS is anticipated to have a large summer associate class despite peer firms abolishing such programs.
Also, ATMS is comprised of many well-respected partners and associates. If one takes a moment to investigate the litigation/appeals ATMS attorneys are retained in it would be discovered by that person the cases involved high profile matters. One example, Hepatitis C litigation in NV had an ATMS partner and respective associates as national coordinating counsel. Many more exist but there is no reason to list for now.
A nurse is a nurse. Nurses these days are egotistical.
Who, attorneys, needs a nurse to tell them about medical issues involving non-nursing problems??
A nurse is still a nurse. Perhaps we speak with the neurosurgeon, or oncologist, or ???? the client??? A nurse cannot render a standard of care opinion for anyone except…well…maybe a nurse- if that?
The attorney knows or will find out without paying a nurse $ to do worthless tasks.
Nurses serve no purpose for defending anyone except nurses. Even then, are you sure you want a nurse??
@4:02:
Do you get paid higher for bringing in more? Or, is all the downside risk yours, and all the upside potential ATMS's?
Moderators refused to post my comment – interesting.
I had a legal assistant tell me that ATMS terminated her just a few days before Christmas without warning or severance pay when some attorney had refused to own up to her mistake. She also told me that ATMS has quite a reputation for having a revolving door.
I was told by someone else that their revolving door doesn't just involve staff but associates as well.
There's no conspiracy- sometimes legit comments mistakenly get caught in the spam filter.
4:55,
12:09 here. I don't think you get it. I don't give a shit if someone isn't interested in hiring me, I'll just keep looking. What I do think is INEXCUSABLE is setting up an in person interview, having me travel, on my dime, all the way across the country, and THEN calling me as I am driving to the office.
That's extremely inconsiderate and unprofessional. At the very least meet with me for 15 minutes, but they didn't even have the decency to do that. If ATMS wasn't interested, they could have just straight up rejected me. That's just part of looking for a job.
A good friend of mine at my current firm worked at ATMS for the first 16 months out of law school. His "class" of new law grads starting as associates at ATMS included 12 new attorneys. When he left 16 months later only one remained. That means 11 of 12 had quit or been fired before the 16 month mark. That's an insane revolving door.
Still, my friend is not particularly negative about ATMS. He said it's a real grind and that the partner you are assigned to has a major impact on your quality of life. However, overall he's generally positive about his 16 months there.
I also have some experience with the firm as I interviewed with Erik Taylor when I was still in law school. All I remember was that during the interview I mentioned I would likely not take his offer since I had other offers that simply paid more. On the spot he increased his offer by $15k, which I did not expect at all. I still went another route, primarily because it paid even more. However, Erik Taylor left a good impression and seems like a guy I could easily work for. Moreover, the firm I chose instead (which shall remain nameless) was a terrible place to work. Looking back, I may have preferred ATMS.
8:13's comment—"the partner you are assigned to has a major impact on your quality of life"
Is absolutely true. That would be true anywhere but at Alverson especially. I worked at Alverson for about 3 months out of law school and this comment was mentioned many times around the proverbial water cooler. I worked for a bad partner and my job there sucked. If you can find a good partner "team" to get on you will be alright for a while, but ultimately your career at Alverson is stunted unless you are a mormon male or a young female. When I first got there I was told about all of the partners/associates who were sleeping together…true story. No names need be mentioned though….
@10:19 – COME ON! Naming names is what this blog is for! Who cares about the salary or work life at ATMS. The real news is who is sleeping around!
I'm only slightly joking.
Nothing quite like mentioning a sweatshop / shithole like ATMS to get the comments flowing.
ATMS is designed to put new associates through the grinder, and when they quit, go right on to the next batch. That's why a large summer associate program at a relatively small firm screams "shithole," not "Biglaw."
oh i know two names … partner still there … associate gone, quit law for a while and now back at another firm.
They are defending my medical malpractice suit against Naphcare (the agency for CCDC).
The opposing lawyer is ruthless and relentless, but I dig that. I wouldn't want to win in a walkover for this amount of money.
BTW, I am pro-per, and am not intimidated by her "Super Lawyer" status.
That magazine is a total joke!
I worked there for two years out of law school. I really enjoyed my time there and would not do it any differently if given the chance. I hear the benefit and pay structure has changed quite a bit, but I have nothing negative to say about the time I was there. I got great experience and the pay, when factoring in the benefit package and bi-annual raises, was fairly consistent with the other mid-size firms I interviewed at.
I am a new attorney and work at ATM&S. Compared to other firms I worked at during law school ATM&S is great and gives you a lot of real experience right off the bat – e.g., I was taking depositions literally the week after bar results. I'm not really sure where all the criticism is coming from, but I suspect that the majority of the haters on this blog are people that applied and didn't get a job at ATM&S. I don't think an $80,000 starting salary is anything to complain about, especially in this job market. Also, the "sweatshop" label is not accurate, at least not in my practice group at ATM&S. All hours billed over 2,000/year you get paid time and a half. That seems reasonable to me, some firms require much higher than 2,000/year and start at less than $80,000/year. I guess nothing I say will mean anything to a lot of you though, haters will be haters.
I know this is a really old post, but if you see it, I would love to get an updated perspective from you. I'm considering applying here. Do you think it's a job worth sticking around for a couple years? I'm happy at my current position in California but looking to move to Vegas soon. I don't want to make the move to only work for a year at a firm and be burnt out. Also, how much vacation time is given and is acceptable to actually take the vacation time. Thanks!
I never worked at ATMS, but based upon the attorneys I know who worked there, 2 years would be a relatively long tenure. It's also probably not the place for you if you want to go on vacation.
Ask Bruce about his term for associates: "Fungible Billing Units." See if that affects your view of the firm.
Everybody I've ever talked to that worked at ATMS, and if you've worked in Vegas long enough you run into ex-ATMS folks all the time, has said that it was brutal. Time is cut without explanation. Overbearing partners. Constant stress that you're next on the chopping block. I was co-defense counsel a few years back on a med mal case with ATMS and they must have had four different associates leave ATMS during the course of the case. Incredible.
Compared to the other clowns I worked for in this town, I would pick them over the other losers.
Most of the other law firms in this town are such a joke. Let's see…one former boss is in jail on federal charges….one former boss discriminates against women….one former boss was accused of messing with minors….I could go on and on….
I have an interview with ATMS. From the comments, I should take the position if it's my only offer?
I'm a 3L and have an interview with them in a few weeks. Can someone shed some light on the starting salary (2021/2022), bonus structure, benefits, and yearly billables? I was a law clerk for a different firm and may get an offer in the upcoming weeks. It is a well respected mid-size firm, 1850 yearly billables, 112500k starting salary with yearly performance based bonuses, good benefits. I'm hoping that AT&S is somewhere in that ballpark in terms of compensation. Anyone have any insights?