- Quickdraw McLaw
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There are so many attorneys in town no-one has ever heard of who magically have hundreds of cases in litigation, and many more hundreds in claims. They do not advertise in any way, shape, or form, yet they have tons and tons of cases. How? They pay for them – tow truck drivers, ER nurses, body shop guys, insurance agents, etc.
And some of the billboard attorneys are the worst offenders. Their billboards are just cover for what they’re really doing (paying for cases). And all the ones who do it could be caught very easily if the state bar would just look at their tax returns – because they all write it off as “advertising expenses” when they file taxes.
It’s a rampant problem and I’d love to see what additional information commentators add to the discussion if it were to be posted.
Do you agree? Is this really a rampant problem or even a problem at all?
Your Office of Bar Counsel is at it again. As much as it pains me to defend the detestable Geraldine Kirk-Hughes, the OBC tried to impose costs for $35,000 in staff salaries on GKH. When asked to provide backup for the costs, the Office of Bar Counsel testified that it does not have to keep actual time records and can estimate the amount of staff time spent. The Supreme Court said no, if you want to collect staff costs, you have to actually keep time records.
Your OBC– we think we are superior lawyers who can just make up our own rules because we took a job after being terrible lawyers in the real world.
http://caseinfo.nvsupremecourt.us/public/caseView.do?csIID=45705
The obvious irony is that OBC, in fee dispute herings, and often discipline hearings as well, will babecuse attorneys for collecting or enforcing fees without real clear clarity on how the fees were justified.
Obviously, on contingency type cases the situation of fees is a lot easier to decipher. But many fee disputes, as well as disciplinary proceedings, don't involve a contingency contract. If attorneys are not on a contingency basis, it is mandatory for them to have a clearly written fee agreement, as well as regular billings which include an itemized description of each entry.
If you collect, or attempted to collect, $35,000 from a client, but you only estimate these costs as being reasonable for the time spent, but you have no actual billing or records of the time spent, and what each expenditure was for, the Bar lowers the boom on you.
Yet, in the case mentioned, they apparently had no problem demanding $35,000. payment for their time spent, and we are expected to accept as gospel their "estimate", even though they don't have any time sheets with description of the work performed or how long it took.
Also, would this not be double dipping in the sense that whether or not they collect $35,000. from GKH to compensate for Bar staff salaries spent on the discipline, the staff still receives their full salary regardless of whether the $35,000. is collected.
This is an excellent point and was the subject of a rule change 2 years ago. It used to be that attorneys were assessed the actual costs of their disciplinary proceedings. However Stan can to the Supremes and said that he needed more money to pay his staff. Stan said he wanted a minimum:
$1500 for a reprimand
$2500 for a suspension of any length
$3000 for a disbarment
$2500 for a reinstatement (which means reinstated attorneys pay $5000)
This is now SCR 120. And yes, they expected that the Panel would (and by the way did) just accept the State Bar's word as Gospel. Yes if this was a law firm that tried to just dump $35,000 worth of fees without any records or even ability to break down tasks, you would be excoriated. Remember NRPC 1.5 says "A lawyer shall not. . .charge or collect an unreasonable fee.. . " Guess that rule does not apply to the OBC.
This case also stands for the proposition that Disciplinary Panels do whatever the State Bar feeds them to do. I served on those Panels. We are treated as members of the State Bar. Our materials are prepared and delivered to us by the State Bar. The paralegal who is supporting the Panel is the same one assisting the Assistant Bar Counsel. The concept of arms' length neutrality in disciplinary hearings is a myth.
All I am going to say is hire a non billboard, non television advertising attorney. The one thing that allows me to sleep at night is that I have morals and convictions which is a rarity in this profession.
This comment made me think of Paul Powell, which caused me to spit out my coffee.
9:37, one hundred percent agree. I hope you are an attorney. It gives me hope. There is an afterlife, and you will be held accountable for your actions. Karma.
He will let you keep your pants.
Just not the shirt on your back…
I started lawyering with a non-billboard, non-TV PI firm. I would scoff at those advertisers, thinking that "real lawyers" don't need to advertise. Several years later, I'm working for an advertiser, and I've quickly realized that the advertising doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the quality of the work. The attorneys I work with are better than the ones at the first firm, and our litigation work is better too. The only real difference is on the pre-lit side, where they are 100x busier than the non-advertiser.
While on the post-lit side, the firm that the new firm feeds is busy while the pre-lit firm just waits for its cut.
While we're talking about Supreme Court decisions, how about McGowen v. Dist Ct. http://caseinfo.nvsupremecourt.us/document/view.do?csNameID=43542&csIID=43542&deLinkID=688464&sireDocumentNumber=18-0000* in which they say it's okay for a Plaintiff's attorney (or staff) to personally serve a complaint.
Jesus what a surprise. Hardesty writes the Opinion; Pickering writes the reasoned dissent. I don't know what Hardesty has pictures of the other 5 Justices doing to each other but it is getting old.
You think it is bad now, just wait for the two new ones coming on the bench. This is going to be interesting.
I usually agree with Pickering, but I think Hardesty and the other 5 got it right here. An attorney is not a party to a case (I think it would be pretty scary in other applications to hold that attorney = the party), and federal courts have agreed when interpreting basically the same federal rule.
1:41– Pickering actually got it right on the Federal cases. Federal courts are split on the question (unlike Hardesty who erroneously states that Federal courts are uniform on the question). Attorneys are often held to be one and the same with "party". Why do we prohibit named litigants from serving papers? Because they are not disinterested. Same is true of the attorneys. There was no need to change Sawyer. This Court is intellectually lazy and allows itself to be bullied by Hardesty. I suspect Hardesty had a bench brief done that told all of the justices that the question is settled in federal courts and the other 5 went "OK if you say so….." Pickering is the only one who goes "Mmmmm that is not correct."
I'd be interested in a look into the ratio of how split it actually is by circuits.
The point was Hardesty misrepresented in the Majority Opinion that it is settled law in the federal courts. Not true. Like much of what Hardesty says; truth is whatever he can bully you into believing.
To: 9:37-Agreed. However, there are some fee agreements beyond contingency or hourly billing, which you did not mention. Billings are not limited to those two scenarios. There can be flat fees, and also what I call incremental fees(such as paying as the case advancing to the next level or project, and other arrangements as well. Obviously, criminal cases don't involve contingency fee arrangements, not do most attorneys perform them on an hourly billing basis.
But, yes, by the very nature of how The Bar is presenting its request, it is clear they are justifying the matter based on a time spent analysis, which sure looks like an hourly billing situation. And that means they should be held to the same standard they rigorously and consistently hold attorneys to–list the time spent and the work performed.
Doesn’t NVRPC 7.2(n) let you pay a lawyer referral service for referrals? Who’s to say what a lawyer referral service is? It’s not defined anywhere.
LRIS. Only LRIS. Don't test the State Bar on this one.
7.2 allows referral fees among attorneys in Nevada. It doesn't allow you to pay a referral service on a commission/royalty/contingency basis.
Can somebody please explain to me what "paying for cases," i.e. "what they're really doing" is?
In the old days (showing my age by saying this) it was called paying a capper to funnel a case to the attorney. Most frequent cappers were tow truck drivers, ambulance staff, ER employees and body shop employees. Also had people that were paid to simply drive around with the attorney's business card and stop at the scene of the accident to send the "victim" to the attorney.
Other relationships existed but tended to be more reciprocal in nature.. attorney/chiropractor which referred back and forth to each other.
They have police scanners and will show up at the scene of an accident within minutes, usually driving a luxury SUV of some kind. It has been blatant for years and nothing is ever done.
I'm not really sure I understand the negative ethical implications of those types of arrangements, but then, hey, who cares OBC seems mostly focused on trust accounts.
Not true. It is an ethics violation if they say that it is an ethics violation unless you have called the hotline and asked if it was an ethics violation and been told no, in which case you are on your own.
It is an ethics violation of you are a solo. If you are a larger firm, it is just practicing law, look to Glen Lerner. That dude should have disbarred decades ago.
Same with the Pink Building, not owned by a lawyer, but still allowed to operate. What a legacy.
Know
Or Golightly.. If I remember correctly, he didn't own the Law Offices of Chad Golightly. Rather he was an employee and paid to be the front for the business, the business itself was owned by a chiropractor.
About 10 years ago there were rumors about this relationship and that the bar was going to pursue it. The word on the street was that the practice was then sold to Bob Vannah but that it would still operate under the Golightly name. Didn't hear of the OBC pursuing it after that point.
Thank you! For those old enough to remember there once was no Golightly, then poof- the guy was everywhere. I just figured he was loaded to begin with but his birth as a firm really seemed to come out of nowhere.
"Make yourself comfortable. Your place or mine."
Rocky Horror Picture Show aka as the present state of the practice of law in Las Vegas
That might be Dee Schneider, but I like it either way.