- Quickdraw McLaw
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Some of you already started the festivities in yesterday’s comments, but the US News and World Report Law School Rankings came out and UNLV Boyd School of Law is tied for #59 with two other schools. More astonishingly, the school was ranked #1 in Legal Writing.
In unrelated news, a little birdie tells us that the deadline to submit nominees for Nevada’s Legal Elite is this week.
Also, the Nevada Independent has an IndyMatters interview with Maggie McLetchie.
As a former law clerk at the trial and appellate court level, i have seen many different writing styles and skillsets…ranging from lawyers very experienced to very novice. Also from lawyers which went to higher ranked schools, to lawyers to went to lower ranked schools. How do i know? because I would look up most of the lawyers whose work i was reading, just for my own curiosity.
essentially what i learned is that the school or the experience does not make a difference if the lawyer simply is going to half ass their work product. like FDR said, "its not about the size of the dog in the fight, but about the size of the fight in the dog"
I also went to Boyd. I believe Boyd does a great job fostering good skillsets and makes sure to support those who want to become great. Obviously there are going to be many students who just schlepp through law school doing bare minimum, while others try to maximize their time and do everything possible, from SOA, Law Journal, clubs, Student council, and whatever else out there. I believe what makes Boyd better than other schools is they are there to support students who want to do all types of things, and are willing to pay for student to partake in writing and oral argument competitions (which is how these writing rankings come about). Simply put, if a law school doesn't take its student to these competitions, then the law school is not going to be known for being good at it. UNLV puts itself out there, and it has represented itself well in the competitions
dont hate on UNLV for going up and accusing them of "gaming" the rankings. I am sure all schools are trying to "game" it. I just dont understand the disdain for Boyd. I really don't. I don't hate on any other school, whether its ASU, Utah, BYU, Thomas Jefferson, Whittier, or even Cooley. I only hate on the attorney who sucks at what they do, because they are a disservice to their client, the justice system, and simply make me work harder because they are incompetent.
long story short: hate the incompetence, not the school.
Now I have Taylor Swift stuck in my head, 8:31.
The legal writing faculty at Boyd includes some of the meanest human beings I've ever come across. This kind of ranking will not humble them.
@8:31 sounds like great fun at a party
Are we still talking about where people go to law school? I believe that unless someone went to a prominent law school, such as Standford, Yale or Harvard, it does not really matter. Most law school are strictly regional schools that provide a source for incoming attorneys in a particular market.
9:35 AM is right. I lack the raw intellect of my opposing counsel. But I will do whatever it takes to out work and out prepare every one of them. And that's why I win.
Bob Eglet and Mitch Cobeaga went to McGeorge, which is unranked. Joe Bongiovi and Bill Terry went to University of San Diego, currently ranked #95. I don't think where one went to law school really matters much.
And some of the dumbest went to Ivy league.
10:29-There are exceptions. What about Thomas Cooley or Thomas Jefferson? Of course, where you go to school matters. There are so many fly by night law schools today. Another reason for a comprehensive bar exam.
Who the hello is Joe Bongiovi?
He is Ma. Border's father.
Eglet went to Hastings.
I thought he was a singer…
@8:31, Thank you for pointing out how incompetent performance by an attorney harms not only the client and the attorney's reputation, but others involved in the case (opposing counsel, judge, court staff, justice system, etc.) making everyone else's job much more difficult.
Eglet took trial advocacy at Hastings, but he went to McGeorge for law school.
I went to Harvard and ate a sandwich in the cafeteria. But I got my degrees at UNR and Boyd.
Where you went to law school is at most a measure of your LSAT score, which is a measure of your intellect plus time and money spent prepping for the LSAT. And it's only that in most cases. It can also have to do with race, parental connections, and other things that alter admissions standards. Once you're in the door of any law school, graduating means showing up doing anything other than pooping in your exam booklets. Now, law school coupled with class rank, that's much more useful information.
As someone that has been on the hiring side, law school and class rank are interesting for moments of idle curiosity, I am far more interested in determining (to the extent possible in the hiring process) the applicant's work ethic, common sense, creative thinking ability, problem solving skills, reading comprehension, ability to follow directions, ability to apply facts to law/rules, etc. Additionally, I use the gut chemistry test, is this someone that will fit in to the organization and you want to spend more time with than your family [think of some family, that might include just about anyone else].
@11:20, Thank you for the great laugh
Did shitty on the LSAT, scored high on my IQ test. No, it was not an internet test.
11:20– You are Roger Croteau aren't you?
I eat my lunches at Strip joints.
I have a case with Roger right now. Love everything about that guy. I hope he never changes. A Vegas original!
When I have to hire a new associate, part of my goal is to cover my ass in case the new hire turns out to be unproductive or an asshole.
A Harvard grad (not that we get many applying) comes with an excuse for their poor behavior. If they don't last long enough that people forget I chose them, I can point to the grad's diploma and it provides me cover if the grad is not a good fit. It's happened before and I'm glad I had the excuse.
A Boyd grad? They'd have had to be exceptional.
I've gotten better at interviewing and moved up the ranks, so I can hire from a wider field of candidates without worrying about blowback. I have found Boyd grads who are hungry to prove themselves make good hires. A resume would tell me if they could process batches of documents (law review). As I got better at interviewing, I was able to figure out who a) was dutiful in fulfilling their responsibilities b) high levels of empathy (client facing potential) c) reads books/has a general knowledge of the world beyond their narrow lives. That matters more than the name on a diploma.
but I was scared as hell to hire boyd grads when hiring was first added to my responsibilities.
Command Center, this is Houston, we are landing soon….
Academics aside, Boyd continues to flood Nevada with attorneys. With that flood comes more busy work. I can say without hesitation that, pre-Boyd, the practice of law in Las Vegas was more pragmatic and less focused on meaningless busy work. We argued more about things that actually mattered and advanced our clients' interests and far less about inane details which are of little or no consequence. That has been the worst effect of Boyd. It means that many lawyers do more unnecessary busy work, rip off their clients, and contribute to the already-poor reputation of the profession. I'd be just as happy if Boyd and 40 or 50 other law schools simply shut their doors. The profession would benefit. And I realize that this may seem to some as an old-school, back-in-the-day rant.
TLDR for 11:18 AM "Get off my lawn!"
11:18 AM is right. We didn't need Boyd and the presence of Boyd has contributed (mostly) negatively to the practice of law here in Las Vegas. Having too many attorneys for the amount of available legal work creates problems. It contributes to the kind of legal work that residential construction defect lawyers do – BS legal work.
TLDR ?
TLDR = Too Long Didn't Read.
Dennis Prince went to California Western School of Law and Robert Eglet went to McGeorge. U.S. Supreme Court Justice Kennedy taught at McGeorge.
Dennis Prince is up there with Claggett, the foreclosure man. He is not as good as a SCOTUS.
Both Cal Western and McGeorge have academic standards. They will fail marginal students when many law schools will pass everyone. The rankings are a beauty contest. Nothing more. A generation ago the best Nevada students went to Cal Western and McGeorge. Today they would go to Boyd. You have to be really motivated to go to law school out of town. Today you can commute and see if you like it.
The reason bad law schools like Cal Western and McGeorge fail students is they admit many students who are unfit for law school and unlikely to ever pass a difficult bar exam. Once they identify some of these students, via their poor performance, they fail them to keep their stats up. Law schools that "pass everyone" do so because they generally admit students with the work ethic and intelligence to make it through law school and a bar exam.
Maybe this is an unfair reading of your statement, but to the extent you are implying McGeorge and Cal Western provide some level of rigor or quality lacking in a school that passes everyone, like a UCLA or Boalt, it is a ridiculous implication.
I know some excellent lawyers from McGeorge and other peer schools. I know a GULC alum who is shockingly dumb. That being said, you cannot generalize based upon outliers. Your average law student today from UCLA or USC or Davis or even Boyd is going to be far superior than your average law student from McGeorge or Cal Western.
A poor, average or great law student and a poor, average or great lawyer is not subject to comparison. Apples and oranges.
I am simply unable to respect any law school (or probably anything for that matter) that starts with "Mc"
I can't agree. You absolutely have to respect the McDouble. So much value for just $1.19 (plus tax, participating locations only).
Q. You went to law school? At Costco? A. I know! I couldn't believe it, either. But luckily, my dad was an alumnus, so he pulled some strings.
@2:33 Excellent quote from an all-to-real-now movie!
Trump and Session declare that they are going to start seeking the death penalty for opioid cases. What a huge waste of money on unconstitutional and frankly horrifically draconian sentences. What country are we living in?
The Philippines. Might as well go all-in on their plan and simply have vigilantes perform summary executions on the streets.. why burden the legal system with pesky trials when we already know they are guilty…
So let me get this straight….We cannot trust the FBI and other law enforcement authorities because they are self-serving, lying, conniving toadies except when their testimony can get (1) a guy selling pain pills to be executed; (2) a guy running a state-sponsored marijuana dispensary jailed; or (3) a cop who needs a new pair of tanks to seize some "suspicious money." Got it.
8:40, also when their testimony can form the basis of a conviction for "lying to a federal investigator," (18 U.S.C. § 1001).
You are correct! Except when they lie to other FBI agents (ala McCabe) and then it is not a §1001 Violation.