- law dawg
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Yesterday we were struck by senseless tragedy. Our condolences go out to the families, friends, and coworkers of everyone who is suffering right now including you. This is a small legal community and most of us have a personal connection to yesterday in one way or another. These were real people who we know and work with and dealing with the consequences of what happened is going to take time and energy to heal. Because we know these people, many of us have opinions about it. Whether positive or negative, your opinions are valid, but please remember to be kind and understanding as people handle this grieving process in different ways. There was absolutely no justification for what happened yesterday and regardless of what exactly played out, there is every reason for us to take a closer look at what we can do to reduce the possibility of something like this happening again. If you need help, please reach out to someone, help is available by dialing 988.
- Dennis Prince and his wife Ashley were murdered at a deposition by Joe Houston. [RJ; 8NewsNow; KTNV]
- Justin Jones testifies about missing texts in long-running development suit. [KTNV; RJ]
- Judge to hear arguments in Telles case. [RJ]
- A’s, Schools Over Stadiums face off before Nevada Supreme Court this afternoon. [RJ]
- Wynn Las Vegas asks judge to order Fontainebleau to immediately stop poaching its execs. [RJ]
Horrifying!
After the events yesterday, i feel like almost everything now is trivial. we lawyers really do complain too much about the smallest things and fail to appreciate the good things we do have. I’ve gotten in my fair share of heat exchanges in depos, to imagine any one of those couldve ended my life and left my child without a parent is terrifying. we really need to do better. and we can start by not being assholes to each other
If the guy across the table sets a heated tone, it’s tough to not join in.
But it can be incredibly effective to be the “calmer than you are” attorney, if you have the poise.
You know, 10:21 AM, I myself dabbled in pacifism once. Not in ‘Nam of course.
It is not tough. It is not (or at least should not) be personal. It is a job, a job that you committed to perform professionally and competently. If your opposing counsel is losing control, feel free to keep and take control.
No, it is indeed tough to not respond in kind when the other guy is being a dick. But we should behave properly anyway, despite it being the more difficult route.
You might try a different tactic. I would encourage you to think of ways of disarming the heated tone. “Did you mean that to sound so heated?” “How can we resolve this/discuss this in a manner that allows us all to be respectful of each other and our clients so we are more productive at resolving issues?” You can’t control another person’s behavior but you can control yours. Classes in communication may be of help. Laws the forbid attorneys from representing family members would be of help. Had the attorneys not been family members of the parties in dispute they would not have the emotional investment in the negotiations that were taking place. Peace and self reflection to all.
Not an attorney here. Expert witness only. Surprised that representing family members in a family law / divorce matter is even allowed. Something that should definitely be considered and implemented to keep this kind of animosity out of the system.
Yeah, one guy (of questionable mental stability) murders two people and leaves a host of children parentless, and new laws and rules are going to fix it. Come on.
As suggested yesterday an RPC prohibiting guns at depositions is insane. Do you think such a rule would have stopped this? No.
But, has DP or another party been CCW, it might have been lessened or prevented.
Laws against representing family members are similarly pointless.
I have no issue with CCW. But one of the first things you learn is that the odds under those circumstances that you are going to outdraw someone who is planning their move at that close of range is virtually nil. I am not trivializing the loss of life or value that a weapon may have in certain circumstances. But from what we know so far, there was very little that would have stopped this attack once they were across the table.
Exclusively Zoom depositions and Zoom hearings are in my future. This is a horrid tragedy. It is so surreal to be in court this morning (as I am) and things are just proceeding as normal without mention of this tragedy. I do not mean to be dramatic, but this is cutting me deeply and I barely knew Dennis. I worked with him on a few cases, same side and opposed, and saw him at events. He was funny and personable and I keep thinking of he and Ashley leaving their children without parents. It’s numbing. I agree with the post above – things seem so trivial. Rest in Peace Dennis & Ashley, and while we are going about our day with hearings and status checks (and discussions of stupid local court rules) – so uncomfortably – many of us are keeping you in the forefront of our minds. You will not be forgotten.
I am going to start putting my foot down about in person depositions moving forward. Particularly if the parties are attending as well.
I was very disturbed by the news yesterday, and I definitely started having thoughts about exiting the more confrontational areas of law that I practice (litigation & occasionally family law). Upon further reflection, though, I realized that this type of tragedy can happen on any given day and at any given location, including an elementary school, a church, a movie theater, a concert, driving to work, etc. Being an attorney doesn’t make me any more or less of a target than a school teacher, a pastor, etc. I’m resigned to the fact that I have little to no control over what others might do (especially those with severe & untreated mental illness and can’t control their emotions/impulses).
RIP Dennis & Ashley. My heart breaks for their poor children–especially the newborn.
“Being an attorney doesn’t make me any more or less of a target than a school teacher, a pastor, etc.” False.
We are in a highly charged, highly emotional profession (more or less depending on what area you practice in). You’re right that we can’t eliminate the risk, but there are certainly things that can be done to mitigate it. Like don’t represent your son or your new spouse in a custody battle for starters.
It appears that this custody dispute was not the only piece of exceptionally vitriolic litigation involving Ashley and her ex-in-laws. See: A-22-847425-C
It’s such a tragedy for everyone involved and for everyone left behind. In terms of things that can be done to decrease the likelihood of something like this happening again, I think we need to discuss a couple of things. 1. Is it time to change the rule that permits parties to attend depositions; 2. Should there be rules put in place to limit nuclear family representation in domestic matters–these things are already so emotionally charged that it doesn’t help to have attorneys who can’t maintain their objectivity.
Tragedy, not only for the victims and perpetrator, but for the survivors for the obvious emotional and life changes. Less obvious are the certain financial difficulties, possibly impoverishment. For the law firm, even after a remodel, who will be comfortable in that conference room? When a firm is built around an individual’s persona, the firm may not survive. From many perspectives, regardless of Houston’s physical health, emotional state or depression, it was a selfish act.
Of course it was a selfish act. That’s presupposed.
Maybe its because I don’t do family law but I’ve never had a client at a depo I was taking. They can’t object, they can’t say anything, and having clients present seems to increase the chance of grandstanding by the witness or attorneys. The only reason I could think to have the client present is if something new comes out and you want to ask them about it before resuming questioning. But that could be done just by letting your client know you may need to call them during the depo to clarify some things.
I also have to wonder if this happens if both sides were represented by nonfamily members. I imagine its difficult to keep your emotions in check, and provide unbiased representation, when the dispute concerns your own grandchildren or stepchildren.
I don’t do family law either, but I almost always have clients at depos. I want them to see it, and I like having them there if I need to clarify issues for my questions. Won’t be changing this.
I knew Prince. He was no angel, either as a lawyer or in his personal life; but he didn’t deserve this. Certainly not the worst guy in the world; he could be funny at times. He was mostly friendly unless he thought you were in his way; and he knew how to do his job. Didn’t know his new wife. Rest in peace.
As far as personal connections and long term effects, who knows? People move on from stuff like this; just as the news cycle is short, so is the time most people are able to remain mournful and sympathetic.
I was at the courthouse yesterday afternoon. Business as usual. Freeways were packed with cars. People were laughing and ziplining on Fremont Street. It was a sobering reminder of a lesson that I knew but needed to learn again: the most consequential man is largely forgettable dirt. When my father died, I raged against the world. How could these assholes not only go on with their day but act like nothing had happened? Did they not understand that the world had stopped and that everyone needed to stop also. The world not only does not stop; it barely blinks.
It reminds me of the quote (that has been bastardized in various ways) to live for the best today you can create instead of for posterity because everyone will be forgotten in 3 generations. Most people can name all 4 grandparents (although many know very little about who they actually were). The vast majority of people cannot name all 8 lineal grandparents. This is your flesh and blood, and they will have forgotten or never cared to get to know you. Have a good day my friends even if you hate me and think of me as your adversary.
I can name all 8 great grandparents and tell you their life story. I can do this going back even further. I am with you on living for today, but the decisions that you and I make, for better and worse, will reverberate for generations to come. Things can last for generations beyond the horizons- wealth, trauma, values, morals, etc.
Maybe you’ll be remembered 100 years from now, maybe you won’t. That’s not the point. What you do now will still be felt in 100 years, absolute fact.
I don’t disagree with your point regarding our decisions having consequences for those around us. The issue is the statement “What you do now will still be felt in 100 years, absolute fact” is limited in its ripples. Dennis was a friend of mine. I am at work today, took my kids to school and will go home tonight and eat dinner at the normal time. This is a catastrophic news in the legal community; yet the buses continued to run on their normal schedule today. We all mistakenly believe that we are cataclysmic and that the world will stop for us.
wut
Anyone know who the 8 people from Las Vegas are?https://www.ksl.com/article/50972648/13-charged-in-fraud-case-tied-to-2nd-district-election-signature-gathering
John Jones was repping Ashley
John Jones commented on the Family Law listserv yesterday that he was not present. Mr Prince was finishing a deposition that started 3 months ago for his wife to save legal fees.
The same John Jones that is getting bench slapped by a Russian in Federal Court?
Yes. They are kids. No idea what they were doing.
I think part of the reason this is so shocking to us all is that we do a pretty good job (generally) of compartmentalizing. We may vigorously fight for our clients, but there is a real sense that its just business. That you hang it up at 5 pm. It’s our client’s lives, but our jobs to put it differently. When something like this happens it is frightening. We like to think our personal lives are protected from work, but we are more exposed then we think. We should all take steps to protect ourselves for sure. You never know when the attorney or opposing party has a screw lose. Or even your own client.
“That you hang it up at 5 pm. It’s our client’s lives, but our jobs to put it differently.”
Yeah, but that’s apparently part of the problem here. It WAS personal. DP represented his new wife in her custody battle with an ex. It’s not to early to say that was really dumb, and not just in hind sight. Hire that shit out for this very reason. Same thing with a Dad representing a son in a custody battle. It got too personal and frankly probably could have been avoided. I hope one of the things to come out of this tragedy is revisiting the RPC’s as to (1) a ban on immediate family members representing parties in domestic cases; and (2) a ban on handguns at all proceedings, including depositions.
CANT there be a room at the courthouse for depositions if there’s a concern over safety? I imagine if that was made available it would be booked a year out.
Should be, but you can trust the family court bench and bar to abuse and turn it into a sh!tshow.
Seems like a potential business idea. There’s a looming commercial real estate collapse. Get a set up like ARM with a lot of rooms, offer lunch like ARM, hire security with magnometers, also have court reporters on staff. One stop shop for depos.
This is an idea that works.
Never will fly. (1) the depositions that you will attract will naturally have higher security risks and no landlord is going to want you. (2) No carrier is going to pay an extra two dollars a page just so you feel safe.
No safety there. I’ve been followed, called every name in the book by the defendants outside the court all in front of marshals and security who did NOTHING. The defendants were telling from one side of the first floor to the other for everyone to hear. They are there to protect their assets, not attorneys or the general public. Remember it was the law clerk who was the MVP when Judge Holthus was attacked.
Outside the courtroom but in the courthouse. Sorry, confusing.
I believe there should be an RPC or local rule change prohibiting lawyers from representing children,grandchildren, parents, grandparents or siblings in a contested divorce or custody matter without leave of court based on good cause (e.g. indigence) with such leave being subject to revocation at the first sign of any kind of threatening behavior.
From what I saw on the docket, there was a motion to DQ Prince as counsel. It was denied.
*should have added spouses to my list.
Typically, attorneys cannot represent if they are “indispensable witnesses” right? (been a long time since PR class at Boyd). There are reasonable policy reasons to permit family members to assist (they may know both parties and can help compromise, saves money, etc.).
The concern is well-taken and reasonable, but lets also not pretend this is not a 1 in 10,000,000 situation. And we generally should not make policy based on a 1 in 10,000,000 situation.
NRPC 3.7 case is the standard in Nevada on this question and holds that a lawyer “shall not act as advocate at a trial in which the lawyer is likely to be a necessary witness unless. . . .” In the Dimartino case, the Nevada Supreme Court ruled “the rule does not mandate complete disqualification of an attorney who may be called as a witness; by its plain terms, SCR 178 simply prohibits the attorney from appearing as trial counsel. In most jurisdictions, a lawyer who is likely to be a necessary witness may still represent a client in the pretrial stage. . . . We believe the majority approach is the better reasoned one. Because the rule is meant to eliminate any confusion and prejudice that could result if an attorney appears before a jury as an advocate and as a witness, pretrial disqualification generally is not necessary. The case may not go to trial, other evidence may be available in place of the attorney’s testimony or the attorney’s client might prefer to have the attorney as an advocate rather than a witness.”
Dimartino v. Eighth Judicial Dist. Court of Nev., 119 Nev. 119, 121-22, 66 P.3d 945, 946-47 (2003)
(1) The testimony relates to an uncontested issue;
(2) The testimony relates to the nature and value of legal services rendered in the case; or
(3) Disqualification of the lawyer would work substantial hardship on the client.
(b) A lawyer may act as advocate in a trial in which another lawyer in the lawyer’s firm is likely to be called as a witness unless precluded from doing so by Rule 1.7 or Rule 1.9.
[Added; effective May 1, 2006.]
Ooops. But you get the point.
Nothing could ever justify what happened, but you absolutely should not represent your child or spouse under those circumstances. How can you possibly provide dispassionate and rational COUNSEL to your client when you are so close to something? Extremely bad idea, and as I said above there needs to be a rule change.
There is enough knee jerk going on in the world. New laws and RPCs are NOT the answer.
This is the paragraph from the Order yesterday that is heartbreaking and shows the chaos in the middle of the court day.
“THE COURT HEREBY ORDERS the minor children are not to be in the custody of Plaintiff, DYLAN E. HOUSTON, until further Order of the Court. The children shall be placed in either the custody of the Defendant, ASHLEY HOUSTON, if she is not deceased or incapacitated. If Defendant is deceased or incapacitated, the children will be placed in the sole custody of Defendant’s sister, LEXI PAGE, maternal aunt.”
ok but post the emergency motion
The case is sealed; you can only view Orders.
Show some respect. Maybe you didn’t like him but to imply he deserves death? Ok bro.
No one said he deserved what happened. DP may have been a great litigator, but that doesn’t change the reality of what was going on here. There is plenty of blame to go around and all 3 of the deceased are included in that. Actions DO have consequences. Sometimes terrible consequences. Put a person in a desperate place and who can say what’s going to happen…especially in a country with more guns than brains.
You are a prick who likely got his ass handed to him by DP, maybe more than once by the ire indicated in your post.
He was a fkg long proven boss in the courtroom and an easy guy to get along with across the aisle. But if you stepped to, he wasn’t afraid to show you your place and who was the alpha.
I liked him personally, admired him professionally, was mildly envious of his accomplishments
and this legal community is worse off for his demise.
From the R/J
“A court document filed hours after a Las Vegas attorney and his wife were fatally shot in a Summerlin law office describes the moments leading up to the killings. Five minutes after a deposition began inside a conference room Monday morning, attorney Joe Houston “stood up, had a very glazed and rattled look in his eyes, pulled out a handgun and shot (Dennis) Prince four times,” according to the document. Another lawyer in the room, identified as Shannon Wilson, “immediately ducked and hid under the conference room table,” attorney Michele Lobello wrote in the filing. “She explained to me that she asked Mr. Houston please not to hurt her baby as she is pregnant,” lobello continued. “She explained to me that Mr. Houston allowed her to leave the conference room and following her quick departure and taking cover elsewhere in the office, she heard additional shots fired.”
“Houston then turned the gun on himself, according to authorities and others familiar with the attack. He had been representing his son, Dylan Edward Houston, in a yearslong custody battle with his former wife, now known as Ashley Prince.
According to the court document filed Monday by Lobello, Dylan Houston was not present at the deposition. The document states that Katherine Houston was being deposed at the time but did not describe her relationship to the case.”
Within hours of the killings, lawyers for Ashley Prince filed an emergency motion for sole custody of the children.
In that document, Lobello wrote that Dylan Houston’s actions around the time of the shooting suggested that he “knew or must have known of the intentions of his father prior to the commission of these heinous acts.”
In a response, he denied the allegations.
“The motivation of the tragedy of April 8, 2024, is unknown to anyone but Joseph W. Houston himself. The Defense’s suggestion that this was a ‘planned attack’ with the Plaintiff is insulting and quite speculative,” Dylan Houston wrote.
Lobello wrote that Dylan Houston attempted to pick up his children from school after the shooting “in the middle of the school day, despite the details as to Defendant’s status of dead or alive not being made public at this time.” Ashley Prince was the defendant in the divorce case.
Wow, very serious allegation by LoBello! Perhaps even reckless. She’d better have something substantial to back that up. If not it could come back to bite her.