- Quickdraw McLaw
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One of you asked a question in the comments last night about hourly rates for billing. It was specific to insurance defense, but let’s open up the question today and discuss hourly rates. What is the going rate in your area of practice? What rates are the outliers? What rate is too low for you to take? On a similar note, if you’re on the plaintiff side, what percentage contingency is competitive right now? Is anyone undercutting those rates and making any difference?
General litigation. $350/hour. Partner with 10 years experience.
I don't think there is a rate too low for our office. Most of our partner rates are $210 and associates are $160. We have a chunk of work in the $300 to $400 range and that certainly makes for a bit of a bitter pill when you see attorneys working 130 hours or so for the same money it takes every bit of 160 to 175 hours a month. Those are real hours. I have never been able to hit the 200 hr expectation some have for defense work – unless I am in trial. I will say this – I worked in commercial litigation for over a decade and my highest rate was 600hr and I was miserable. I much prefer not selling my soul. Ironically I make almost as much money as I did at my former firm. Also – my collection rate is over 90 percent now when it was around 70 percent with commercial litigation.
70% collection on a $600 hour nets $420 to your firm. 90% collection on a $210 hour nets your firm $189. If you are paid the same to net such different returns to your firm, then good for you.
Your math is way off. Also – I did not tell you my salary. You must be at one of those firms that talks about "overhead" to convince you that you should work more. I've sure you've seen the numbers to back it up. I used to be given those numbers and think – holy hell why are we paying this much rent and spending so much money on marketing for every practice in the firm except mine. But – yes, I do know that I am lucky but everyone can have the experience I have – choice.
How is 9:10's math off? You said that your partner rate is $210 per hour billed and that your firm collects 90% of that money. Presuming you are a partner, that means for every 150 hours billed at $210 ($31,500) that you are collecting $28,350 (90% of $31,500 billed).
You said that you billed at $600 an hour in commercial litigation and that your collection rate was 70% in commercial matters. That means for every 150 hours billed for $90,000 that your firm was collecting $63,000 (70% of $90,000 billed). This is why our firm does not worry about billable hours; it worries about profitability.
You did not have to disclose your salary. You stated "I make almost as much money as I did at my former firm."
Reference to 9:10 AM- I think this might be the first post by an ID attorney who seemed content with his/her work. This is hopeful that the practice of law is not as bad as some of the posts on this site would suggest. Your firm must be quite stable and a pretty good place to work.
It is the type of defense work that we do that keeps us interested, as well as our firm structure. Our firm is very stable. Management is excellent, leaves us alone. The work is fun. The pay and benefits are not earth shattering for new lawyers, but after a few years and up in to partnership it levels off at excellent pay and bonuses, as well as 401K. I think my firm is a best kept secret in Nevada. I'll never tell…
Well shucks that you will never tell. I am happy for you that you found your place and doing well in your legal career. It is my hope that everyone working in this field can reach a point that makes it all worth it.
I know that it is off topic but I need to vent my spleen on an issue that has arisen recently. I will deal with nasty opposing counsel. Nature of the game. However if your legal assistant thinks that he (or she) is gets the same leeway and is going call me, email me, negotiate your case and make demands of me, well that is not going to happen. I will be happy to speak attorney to attorney; however there is this increasing trend of legal assistants that appear to have no concept of how this works. Curb your dogs.
After a single incident with unruly OC staffers, I inform them via email that all further comms will be in writing and I dont take their calls unless its the attorney. After a second incident, I dont even make my staff take those calls. United front and all that.
Well said 10:17. I let the OC know that I will continue to deal with OC. Emails from OC staff are responded to by writing to OC. I do not care what goes on inside of other firms; however I have a duty to deal cordially with OC.
@9:32 appears to be someone born of privilege and with a silver spoon in their mouths. Probably a white male too. Look how he refers to "the help". Unlike the dogs, he was privileged enough to have college paid for him. His dad's alma mater of course. Never had to do real actual work. #CheckYourPrivilege
I agree that saying "curb your dogs" was over the line, but I agree with the rest. I have had non-attorney staff get snippy with me, usually over information I have provided to the attorney and the attorney failed to pass on to their staff. I have had to request another attorney's staff not speak with me because of disrespectful demands. I also tire of getting shuffled to a paralegal or assistant when I ask to speak with an attorney. If I request to speak with the attorney, I need to speak with the attorney. If it is a routine matter, chances are I will email about it.
General insurance defense (car accidents, slip and falls, homeowners claims, etc.): $200/hr. Bad Faith/Coverage insurance work is paid higher in my experience, sometimes as much as double. There are hack attorneys and hack firms that do all insurance work for the same rate, but the good ones bill more for the stuff that isn't run of the mill. @9:29, there are loads of unhappy attorneys in all areas of law. Insurance defense gets a bad rap, but most of my ID friends that have been at this for a while make good money, have quite a bit of flexibility, and for the most part don't despite it.
I used to work for this guy that would bill $400.00 per hour for my time on divorce/general lit stuff. Seemed super scammy it was always lower income clients who seemed like they did not understand the concept of the retainer and would never replenish. I hated it.
So how much does a partner make at an ID firm that bills out said partner at $210 an hour? If there was 100% collection rate on 1800 hours, that's only $378k. What's the typical profit margin on an ID associate? What is the typical ratio of equity partners to non-equity attorneys at an ID firm? Trying to do the math and it seems kind of thin to be honest.
I've never done PI/ID. Why are the ID rates so low? Because collections are 100%? Even if they are 100% on paper, don't insurance companies slash bills, which is equivalent to lowering the collection rate? Is ID super easy and chill?
For PI-standard seems to be 1/3 pre-litigation, and 40% for litigation. 45% for post-trial/appellate work. Plus costs.
I know of several firms who are billing out law clerks from Boyd at $200/hour… what the collection is on these rates I cannot say.
We bill our law clerks at $150, although we don't hire from UNLV (we have run into too many poor writers from UNLV).
I billed my law clerks at $150 in 2005. They get $200 now. Associates at $325 and as firm owner I bill minimum of $430 and max is $600 for commercial and bk litigation
12:47 – Every reputable firm in town hires from Boyd. Based on the space your firm occupies below the reputable ones, I am guessing you can't afford law schools higher ranked than Boyd. These clerks of yours likely bill at a rate dangerously close to your own and probably write better too.
So, in addition to several hundred dollars per hour billing for the attorneys, there are firms that also bill a couple hundred bucks an hour for Boyd clerks to "work" on the cases?
If the answer to that is "yes" please let me take a few days to absorb and process that concept.
I got quotes from divorce firms recently. $500/hr for partner, $400 for associates.
Wayyy to high.
I don't know that $400 to $500 for a divorce lawyer is too high. You get what you pay for. The law and the trend is joint legal and joint physical custody unless there is a serious safety issue. Do you have a lot of assets? Will it be acrimonious? If your soon to be ex-spouse is somewhat agreeable use your money wisely and have a Marital Settlement Agreement drafted. It can save so much emotion, heartache, and money to cooperate through the divorce process. In the end, both parties have the same goal, divorce. There are some divorce attorney's that are terrific mediators, just a thought. I would be willing to spend $20,000 for a good mediator and marital settlement agreement.
12 year attorney. I bill at $360 for commercial, $175 for insurance.
After practicing for approximately 20 years in this community, I am confident in saying that very few of us (myself included) are worth anywhere near the rates the firms charge for our "services." Personally, I would only hire about 20 out of the hundreds I've encountered here. The quality of legal services in this community is embarrassingly bad.
Who are the 20 you would hire?
Scott Cantor suspended 5 years and 1 day. NSC refused reciprocal discipline of disbarment from California.
He deserved to be disbarred? Second serious issue. https://www.nvbar.org/wp-content/uploads/NevadaLawyer_March2017_BarCounsel.pdf
Well there are multiple issues here. This is just addressing reciprocal discipline for what happened in California. This does not include his present criminal case for allegedly taking client monies.
Because the State Bar has recently decided that flat fee cases are problematic, for whatever reason I don't know, I list my hourly at $450. I still charge a flat fee, but if it is ever subject to dispute, then the hourly retainer applies.
Judge Jennifer Dorsey just struck a filing of our firm's . This has never happened in over 50 years of our practice. wtf?
What's the case no.?
For self-incrim, I already said enough. SMH.
I just heard that Mark Jackson at Rick Harris' firm passed away. Mark was a good dude and left behind a beautiful wife and family. Condolences to his family.
Does anyone use a service for ghost writing legal pleadings? What's the rate per hour?
Former Nevada Supreme Court Chief Justice Robert Rose has died.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-nevada/former-nevada-supreme-court-chief-justice-robert-rose-dies-2529960/