Building off yesterday's topic — does anyone have an opinion on the going rate for first year associate salary? I see biglaw salaries have boomed in the past few years (seriously $205k+ for a first year?!) and understand some Vegas offices have trended north as well, relatively speaking, paying north of $160k. The NALP directory has Fox Rothschild and Ballard Spahr at $160, and Holland & Hart up to $165k. Snell & Wilmer starts at $165k and Brownstein supposedly starts at $180k. If I am hiring at a commercial litigation firm who considers itself somewhat "in-step" with the above, are these valid comparisons of what I should be offering?
I spoke with a couple BHFS associates when I was looking at firms, and it's my understanding that the Vegas office is $160/165 for first years. I suspect the NALP directory is listing the salary for a different market.
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Anonymous
February 16, 2022 5:49 pm
My guess is that rising interest rates will cause prices to fall a bit and stay down. I don't think there's some huge swath of America that's dying to move to Vegas and will prop prices up. Vegas' main selling point has always been that it's relatively cheap, and that won't be the case again until prices come down.
I wish there was a way to determine what percentage of home purchases in the Las Vegas area are all cash purchases. As long as there is a large number of all cash buyers, the home prices will maintain at a higher level. The reason we had the crash in 2008 was the number of homeowners defaulting on their mortgages. As long as we do not have that level of defaults, the prices will stay high. IMO
On the same line as the cash buyer comment, there are still a ton of foreign and corporate buyers coming in and buying up properties. As long as there is demand in the rental market, I don't see prices going down much. Certainly not like 2008.
One interesting example of 10:53's point is that there has been effectively a takeover of Rhodes Ranch by Chinese foreign investors. The money continues to flow in.
A recession that cuts jobs back would be problematic to residential real estate – the type of recession that has the already strapped for cash home occupant, renter or owner-occupied, losing the ability to make the payment.
It does look like personal debt is very high and savings are rather low, at least according to some reports. Hard to tell. I think some of the folks that bought more home that they could afford back in the 2000's have simply shifted to buying cars and trucks that they can't afford.
And once the renters can't pay the rent, the investors start dumping their properties. Then the market gets a greater supply and prices start falling. How fast and far, who knows, or even if it will happen, we just don't know.
I agree with 1:06 pm. People live way beyond their means and then come see us lawyers and think we can wave a magic wand and make it all better. I see people with incomes of $70k – $90k that have $1,400 payments on $100,000 + trucks. Poor decision. Prior to the bubble bursting in early 2000's people sucked the equity out of their houses and then when the ARM went up they cried because they could not afford their house payment. When that happened they were in my office crying and regretting sucking the equity and taking that trip to Bora Bora and buying a Hummer. Just poor financial choices.
The real question is, "Is the status quo sustainable?"
That status quo is a median house of $400k and a median household income of about $65k. Median rent is somewhere around $2k right now. Also, double digit annual appreciation.
Who in their right mind thinks this is sustainable?
People who say it can't happen again because there aren't subprime lenders doing NINJA loans lack creativity. As if that were the only way for a bubble to burst.
I don't know when the bubble is going to burst, or exactly how, but I am confident this is not a sustainable status quo.
I understand the sustainability argument. However the parallels to 2006 are skewed a bit. In 2006, the average 30 year $300,000 mortgage was 6.5% and (P/I) $1896.20. In 2020, the average 30 year $300,000 mortgage was 2.96% and (P/I) $1258.35. That means (even without wage inflation) people were able to buy 50 percent more house (excusing taxes and insurance) in 2020 than in 2006
8 wants to micromanage every case, and often has a poor demeanor. However, from my (slight) experience so far, her substantive rulings seem ok. But I just can't deal with attitude any more.
There are no civil judges I automatically preempt. It seems to be more on a case by case basis. For example, when the case is frivolous and the law is clearly on my side and I am confident I should be getting out on an early MTD I'll perempt Department XIV because she refuses to make difficult rulings early and kicks the can down the road. I can save my client two years of litigation expenses and 50% on fees for hearings (because Department XIV tends to run long) by doing so. When the Plaintiff is a sympathetic plaintiff I'll tend to perempt the judges who wear their hearts on their sleeves or when opposing counsel is friendly with OPC (but not in a demonstrably disqualifiable way) I'll perempt also. The real problem with peremptory challenges these days is that you can often times end up in a worse situation so you need to be highly certain that you have the worst judge for the case. Otherwise you've wasted 450 bucks and you're no better off.
I don't have any problems with Judge Peterson's demeanor. Are we talking about the same person? My experience is that she does micromanage the cases a little, but it is only because she cares about the parties and wants to help them move towards resolution. I'm not woke, but I have to wonder whether you'd lodge the same gripe about a male judge who acts the same way. Judge Peterson is friendly and helpful. She is the only judge I know who regularly reads through the pleadings AND exhibits.
I've heard some pretty bad things about Dept 8. Haven't had the pleasure of litigating in her courtroom yet, but from what I've heard, I'd probably perempt her.
Guest
Anonymous
February 16, 2022 7:37 pm
Oh goody, rent control. The perfect solution to turn Las Vegas rentals into New York slums.
Guest
Anonymous
February 16, 2022 8:36 pm
It is interesting Nick Lasso is representing this victim, when he was in a fraternity that likewise abused members and others alike.
Guest
Anonymous
February 16, 2022 11:03 pm
I loved Bob Rose. Twice in my career he stepped up and offered help without even having to be asked. He was a wonderful guy!
Met him a couple of times many years ago. Very nice guy. RIP.
Guest
Russell
February 17, 2022 4:35 pm
I'm shocked about Mark. I have a case with him right now I actually was going to call him today. He has been pleasant and professional to work with and I've enjoyed my conversations with him. He was a good lawyer and a good man he will be missed.
Building off yesterday's topic — does anyone have an opinion on the going rate for first year associate salary? I see biglaw salaries have boomed in the past few years (seriously $205k+ for a first year?!) and understand some Vegas offices have trended north as well, relatively speaking, paying north of $160k. The NALP directory has Fox Rothschild and Ballard Spahr at $160, and Holland & Hart up to $165k. Snell & Wilmer starts at $165k and Brownstein supposedly starts at $180k. If I am hiring at a commercial litigation firm who considers itself somewhat "in-step" with the above, are these valid comparisons of what I should be offering?
The above numbers seem high. I don't believe Brownstein starts at $180K. Would be interested in someone confirming or denying accuracy.
I spoke with a couple BHFS associates when I was looking at firms, and it's my understanding that the Vegas office is $160/165 for first years. I suspect the NALP directory is listing the salary for a different market.
My guess is that rising interest rates will cause prices to fall a bit and stay down. I don't think there's some huge swath of America that's dying to move to Vegas and will prop prices up. Vegas' main selling point has always been that it's relatively cheap, and that won't be the case again until prices come down.
I wish there was a way to determine what percentage of home purchases in the Las Vegas area are all cash purchases. As long as there is a large number of all cash buyers, the home prices will maintain at a higher level. The reason we had the crash in 2008 was the number of homeowners defaulting on their mortgages. As long as we do not have that level of defaults, the prices will stay high. IMO
And the subprime mortgages and negative amortization and robo-signing and mortgage fraud etc etc. Defaults alone were not the cause of the 2008 crash.
On the same line as the cash buyer comment, there are still a ton of foreign and corporate buyers coming in and buying up properties. As long as there is demand in the rental market, I don't see prices going down much. Certainly not like 2008.
One interesting example of 10:53's point is that there has been effectively a takeover of Rhodes Ranch by Chinese foreign investors. The money continues to flow in.
A recession that cuts jobs back would be problematic to residential real estate – the type of recession that has the already strapped for cash home occupant, renter or owner-occupied, losing the ability to make the payment.
It does look like personal debt is very high and savings are rather low, at least according to some reports. Hard to tell. I think some of the folks that bought more home that they could afford back in the 2000's have simply shifted to buying cars and trucks that they can't afford.
And once the renters can't pay the rent, the investors start dumping their properties. Then the market gets a greater supply and prices start falling. How fast and far, who knows, or even if it will happen, we just don't know.
I agree with 1:06 pm. People live way beyond their means and then come see us lawyers and think we can wave a magic wand and make it all better. I see people with incomes of $70k – $90k that have $1,400 payments on $100,000 + trucks. Poor decision. Prior to the bubble bursting in early 2000's people sucked the equity out of their houses and then when the ARM went up they cried because they could not afford their house payment. When that happened they were in my office crying and regretting sucking the equity and taking that trip to Bora Bora and buying a Hummer. Just poor financial choices.
The real question is, "Is the status quo sustainable?"
That status quo is a median house of $400k and a median household income of about $65k. Median rent is somewhere around $2k right now. Also, double digit annual appreciation.
Who in their right mind thinks this is sustainable?
People who say it can't happen again because there aren't subprime lenders doing NINJA loans lack creativity. As if that were the only way for a bubble to burst.
I don't know when the bubble is going to burst, or exactly how, but I am confident this is not a sustainable status quo.
I am not worried. Once the long term effect of the shots kick in, the supply and demand will equilibrate.
Go @412!!
I understand the sustainability argument. However the parallels to 2006 are skewed a bit. In 2006, the average 30 year $300,000 mortgage was 6.5% and (P/I) $1896.20. In 2020, the average 30 year $300,000 mortgage was 2.96% and (P/I) $1258.35. That means (even without wage inflation) people were able to buy 50 percent more house (excusing taxes and insurance) in 2020 than in 2006
10:28 wins. As for the rest of you, I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your souls.
Off topic, but I'm interested in hearing which civil judges you automatically perempt and why?
Department 8- Wildly unpredictable and nasty.
Department 12 when she was civil
Department 28 (when I am D) because of a patent plaintiff's bias
8 wants to micromanage every case, and often has a poor demeanor. However, from my (slight) experience so far, her substantive rulings seem ok. But I just can't deal with attitude any more.
There are no civil judges I automatically preempt. It seems to be more on a case by case basis. For example, when the case is frivolous and the law is clearly on my side and I am confident I should be getting out on an early MTD I'll perempt Department XIV because she refuses to make difficult rulings early and kicks the can down the road. I can save my client two years of litigation expenses and 50% on fees for hearings (because Department XIV tends to run long) by doing so. When the Plaintiff is a sympathetic plaintiff I'll tend to perempt the judges who wear their hearts on their sleeves or when opposing counsel is friendly with OPC (but not in a demonstrably disqualifiable way) I'll perempt also. The real problem with peremptory challenges these days is that you can often times end up in a worse situation so you need to be highly certain that you have the worst judge for the case. Otherwise you've wasted 450 bucks and you're no better off.
I don't have any problems with Judge Peterson's demeanor. Are we talking about the same person? My experience is that she does micromanage the cases a little, but it is only because she cares about the parties and wants to help them move towards resolution. I'm not woke, but I have to wonder whether you'd lodge the same gripe about a male judge who acts the same way. Judge Peterson is friendly and helpful. She is the only judge I know who regularly reads through the pleadings AND exhibits.
I've heard some pretty bad things about Dept 8. Haven't had the pleasure of litigating in her courtroom yet, but from what I've heard, I'd probably perempt her.
Oh goody, rent control. The perfect solution to turn Las Vegas rentals into New York slums.
It is interesting Nick Lasso is representing this victim, when he was in a fraternity that likewise abused members and others alike.
I loved Bob Rose. Twice in my career he stepped up and offered help without even having to be asked. He was a wonderful guy!
Met him a couple of times many years ago. Very nice guy. RIP.
I'm shocked about Mark. I have a case with him right now I actually was going to call him today. He has been pleasant and professional to work with and I've enjoyed my conversations with him. He was a good lawyer and a good man he will be missed.