- law dawg
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As is often obvious from the comments, there are several of you with a desire to be able to discuss legal topics that are not necessarily Vegas centric. Here’s your chance. If you want to discuss the legal merits of a topic of (inter)national interest, i.e. national politics, free speech, ICE, Minnesota, the Insurrection Act, the potential for another government shutdown, etc., feel free to do so in the comment section of this post. We ask that you remain civil in your discussion and refrain from personal attacks on each other or the subjects of the discussion. Again this is for discussing the legal aspects of these issues, if it devolves into a stream of memes and vitriol then we’ll shut it down.
Watching the reds shit on the second amendment while the blues nobly defend it is the height of partisan absurdity.
Nah, it’s actually pretty consistent with how the center/left actually views police shootings – that the police will use any excuse they can to manufacture fear and thus justify a shoot. Was it especially wise for Pretti to be armed in the vicinity of cowardly assholes? Depends on your view of why people CC. It also depends on your view of what Pretti was doing there. Was he recorded as being aggressive towards anyone? No. Did he attempt to de-escalate? Yes. Did he fight back in any manner? Not that I can see on the many, many videos I watched over the weekend. He was going to be killed as soon as the undertrained, over-macho-fied CBP assholes realized he had a gun.
Do you think the end result would have been any different if he had tried to shout at them “FYI, I have a CCW, I’m not going for it, please don’t shoot me?”
In Minnesota related news, sometimes even that does not stop them from shooting you. See Philando Castile.
“There was a gun produced by Mr. Castile. He would not comply with the commands of Mr. Yanez. It had nothing to do with race and everything to do with the presence of that gun. If the gun wasn’t present, nothing would have happened here. This would not have happened if not for that gun. This has nothing to do with race.”
The freeze frames are all over the internet by now, easy to see he is on his hands and knees officer standing over him when first shot fired. Gun of course is removed by that point as well. Sooo….
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Nice fake pic. Good grief. Can’t believe the admin hasn’t removed this
I am a Republican. Lets be honest– this incident is splitting the Republicans and uniting the Democrats. Someone with some brains will get to President Trump and let him know that he is letting idiots destroy his mandate. Whether the Emperor will recognize that he is wearing no clothes is a completely different story.
The “blues” are defending the rule of law. We might not agree with the current state of the Second Amendment, but if that is the law we should be able to avail ourselves of that right as well.
Is there a more reprehensible human being than Greg Bovino? Noem just comes across stupid. But Bovino actually comes across as callously evil.
I think he got picked on a lot in school.
Remember that time Bovino’s raid of McCarran was shut down after an hour for racial profiling and roughing up tourists? https://apnews.com/article/bovino-border-patrol-immigration-los-angeles-chicago-03b908a84106fae80a80b2837625eef7
Remember last year when Bovino was found by a Federal Judge to have lied about uses of force that he initiated against citizens but prevaricated that the citizens initiated force against him?
https://www.fox9.com/news/border-patrol-chief-was-outright-lying-about-previous-ice-surge
I would consider myself a liberal, but by no means an “abolish the police” person. People will murder, rape, rob, drive hammered, commit crimes against children, you name it. To deal with that, we must have *credible* law enforcement that enjoys fairly broad public support, because there will always be more of us than there are of them (cops), and they can’t be everywhere all the time. What these ICE/BP clowns and race-soldiers are doing (breaking car windows to randomly kidnap non-white people off the street, shoving a woman to the ground for having the temerity to film them, executing a man on the street, frog-marching an elderly citizen out of his house in his underwear in the dead of winter; I could go on and on), diminishes respect and credibility for *all* forms of law enforcement. And then to have their “leadership” get on TV and tell me that I didn’t see what I just saw, like they think we are all as dumb as they and their followers are. Nope. This has to stop and these people need to face accountability for their actions. This senseless killing on Saturday will be seen in retrospect as the day that the worm turned. We are seeing the cracks already this morning.
Seconded
This is the point made by the Minneapolis Police Chief. ICE/CBP expects MPD to come maintain the peace for ICE’s tactics, executes a citizen holding a cellphone and then expects MPD to take the rocks and bottles restoring the peace that ICE has destroyed. Once ICE pulls out, MPD will be left to deal with the hatred and mistrust of law enforcement (which lets be honest was just now getting better after previous events). Typical of a militia, they are good and breaking things but not really putting things back together/
There’s a lot to parse here but the two things that really stand out to me are:
1) people are boldly saying he “pulled a firearm on federal law enforcement officers” and that he was a would-be assassin. The evidence suggests the opposite. Obviously these people are just parroting the rushed, unverified, and uncorrected misstatements of executive leadership and the President. BUT I’ve seen criminal defense lawyers make this statement publicly (because it aligns with their politics). The cognitive fallacies abound.
2) we cannot allow law enforcement to patrol our streets disguised in masks. It’s totally irreconcilable with the Rule of Law and civil liberties of this country. I get why the pretense of “doxing” is enough to satisfy the MAGA base (already largely happy, or at least comfortable, watching this happen), but it’s preposterous. WE HOLD OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT ACCOUNTABLE. How could any other LEO see this happening and feel anything but disgust?
In the end, we are citizens like everyone else. We have opinions. We have passions and emotions and political persuasions. We should be allowed to share those opinions publicly. But if you’re parsing legal analysis in a public forum please do so with self-scrutiny.
They ripped open his shirt to count the bullet holes and laughed while they did it. Witness Stella Carlson gruesomely detailed to CNN host Anderson Cooper what Trump deportation agents did to Alex Pretti’s body after they killed him in a wrenching interview. https://www.mediaite.com/media/news/witness-gruesomely-details-what-trump-deportation-agents-did-to-alex-prettis-body-in-wrenching-cnn-spot/
What is the legal duty of the ICE agents after they shoot someone? Do they have to attempt to save the life? If, like here, he is already deceased, do they need to treat it like a crime scene?
“Do they have to attempt to save the life?” Yes which they not only failed to do immediately but actually blocked medical personnel who were onsite from administering any aid.
While I imagine it was a fait d’accompli after they shot him in the back while laying on the ground that many times, ICE/CBP agents are not actually trained or qualified to determine if he is already deceased.
Yes they absolutely were required to treat it like a crime scene since they were alleging it to be a crime scene as a predicate for the alleged arrests, such as not secreting away and contaminating evidence but that would require some degree of training in crime scene preservation and analysis which ICE/CBP lacks.
Images of the immigration crackdowns in Minneapolis and across the U.S. have been compared to those from the country’s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The helmets, camouflage and tactical gear all look straight from the battlefield. https://nyti.ms/4qFOWbq
Anyone want to talk about the arrest of Don Lemon? Look, I don’t particularly like the guy and he could have very well been part of the protest, but there’s no question that he was also there as a journalist and reporting on it. He interviewed the pastor and recorded it. In my mind, this arrest is clearly vindictive. We’ve seen that judges wouldn’t allow the charges and i’ve heard there were federal prosecutors who wouldn’t do it, they go the grand jury route? I don’t like this.
I don’t like Don Lemon. I think he is smarmy and not a real journalist in many ways. I also think it was extremely bad form to charge into the church; just because the protestors went into the church did not mean that Lemon should have charged into the church and started interrupting worshippers.
With that said, it is not criminal and never should have been charged. Never. Not once.