- Quickdraw McLaw
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Some of the comments from yesterday got us thinking about professional setbacks. All of us will experience them in some form from time to time. Whether it’s public reprimand, sanctions, getting fired, or bad reviews on social media, it’s an unfortunate reality that your reputation is always at stake in this profession. If you’ve been lucky enough to avoid all of those in your career, good for you. If you haven’t, please share your tips for dealing with it. Do you just roll with the punches? Did you make drastic changes? Did you seek revenge? What did you do to repair your reputation or did you embrace the new one? How did it work out for you? Any other advice for how to deal with professional setbacks in the practice of law?
First of all, and this is a very hard idea to grasp, that the state bars (all of them) are not your friend. The state bar is the only organization that I have every joined in my life, that the minute you join, they are trying to throw you out. They are out to promote the idea that they are protecting the public. This is a lie. They just want to keep the money keeping in and placating those who complain. They are incompetent cowards who go for the low hanging fruit (solos). They would never take on anybody at the Hughes Center because they know that the litigations teams would bury them and bankrupt them so they focus on smaller firms and solos. It is easier to get “conviction” from the average Joe trying to make a living practicing law.
Second, you have to ignore social media posts. The various websites will allow people to trash you for whatever reason (legit or not) and even if it is a bold-face lie, and I have had many of those, the websites will wrap themselves in the First Amendment and tell you to get lost. I understand the need to alert the public to bad attorneys, however there is no check in place. These sites never require a real email address or any modicum of contact information to check the facts. Many years ago I had somebody post a lie (they did not retain me or my office and never paid me a penny – free consultation) and then stated that I stole an absurd amount of money from them. I contacted the website and told me that there is nothing they can do. This is something that the State Attorney Generals could control, but they will not.
Third, the only way to “control” your reputation is for you to put out and publish your own social media. There is a PI attorney in Virginia, I forget his name, who will coach you, however his idea is to go back to the old school method (write articles, publish, speaking engagements, etc.) which seems fairly down to earth and positive. People can talk bad about you, however your published material is yours.
Lastly, understand that although you can be friendly with your staff, you must keep at arms length to your staff and your clients. I cannot tell you how many attorneys I have known over the years who have had inappropriate relationships with their staff and their clients. This is such a bad idea for so many reasons and on so many levels.
I love what I do and I have helped many people over the years, however many groups and organizations have no balancing mechanism in place. Nevada for many years has been the wild west, and if you go back far enough, Nevada was the state bar that you went to after you were disbarred from another state. The irony of it all.
I have been down this road. Took a suspension that was represented to be one thing by the OBC and turned out to be very different by the time the Supreme Court got done with it. With that came being a pinata on social media (this page included).
Do you just roll with the punches? Impossible.
Did you make drastic changes? No choice.
Did you seek revenge? Wanted to but the desire for revenge was eating me alive while the perpetrators happily and obliviously went on with their lives. Revenge was the weight that I carried not them.
What did you do to repair your reputation or did you embrace the new one? Those who knew my reputation before knew my reputation and were remarkably supportive and loyal. I never got clients off of the internet or out of the Yellow Pages anyway so internet trolls prevented me from getting clients I never had before anyway. I got clients back by working hard and being steadfast but implemented checks and balances from other attorneys around me. And those who were loyal were able to tell referrals "This person has been where you were." There is something to be said for the perspective that having sat on the other side of the desk brings.
How did it work out for you? I will let you know if and when it works out.
Any other advice for how to deal with professional setbacks in the practice of law?Honest answer for dealing with it: counseling. It is basically a requirement in many other jurisdictions that an attorney who has been disciplined who wants reinstatement has to seek counseling. I was too proud, too smart, too strong for counseling. I was wrong.
Generally I think the bar is necessary. But let me give you an example of its extremes. I wanted to mail postcards to publicly available mailing addresses. I read the rules, and had the design very vanilla and included the wording in red "Attorney Advertising !" (Yes, the exclamation mark is part of the rule). I submitted a proof copy to the bar and paid the $100 a full month before printing and mailing.
Four (4) months later I got a call. Apparently the advertising committee decided I had violated the attorney advertising notice because it was not printed on BOTH sides of the post card.
Within that same time period, I received at my home address printed attorney advertising from three different firms. One was a large postcard from a well known firm with the attorney ad disclaimer on only one side. The second was a letter mailed in a business envelope with the sending firm name, sans any attorney ad disclaimer on the envelope or the inside letter. The third was a large 6 panel fold out mailer. The attorney disclaimer appeared on only 1 panel.
So, where is the consistency? Did the well established firms get a pass?
@11:26am – I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the three different mail outs probably did not submit their advertising to the State Bar like you did. The punishment for not doing so is damn near nothing, so it's gotten to where asking for forgiveness is better than asking for permission.
10:22 and 10:41 both have great suggestions. One more thing I'd add is that attorneys need to stop engaging with he who shall not be named. (I realize this is more of a local thing specific to Vegas and not the practice of law in general.) Shockingly, there are still attorneys and politicians who go on his show and go to his ball. All they are doing is empowering that fool who then turns around and targets members of the bar.
He used to be friendly towards me. I did not encourage or engage with him and when I declined his ridiculous suggestions and I did not accept referrals from him, he turned on me and started harassing me online. He is a real problem in our profession, especially if you practice in family court, and people need to stop giving him credibility by engaging with him. Starve the troll.
This is s tough topic. First, it reminds of Alexis Plunkett. Check out what is on her page these days. https://www.plunkettfirm.com/ I know that there are multiple sides to every store, so I try not to take things at face value. People do end up in unfortunate circumstances–sometimes as part of their own actions and sometimes because someone else has an agenda. Second, you can only control so much. I had a previous employer who tried to sabotage me at my next job. Luckily, the second firm knew the first's reputation and gave me the benefit of the doubt. So, I try to do the same for others. Third, not to sound trite, but sometimes a door closing is the best thing that can happen for you. Maybe the next opportunity is the one that you never knew you were looking for. Keep a positive attitude. People go through shit and get second chances–especially lawyers. Be kind to each other. We're all going through one thing or another.
Wow! I just read what she wrote on her website and it is very persuasive in the way she presents her story. As I recall, when things were happening I kept asking why would she put herself in that situation. For example, it was alleged that she was dating one of her clients who was a felon. Also, her attitude was that she was at war with the system and took whatever steps were necessary to win the present battle, without realizing that she would eventually lose the war with the system.
Unrelated question, is the assessor's website not working for anyone else? Every time I try to pull up a deed I get a server error message. The same deeds I pulled up without a problem on Monday. Same issue on my phone and every computer in the office. has been like this for a few days.
Neither the Assessor's nor the Recorder's public-facing document search functions are working at the moment. You can do basic searches on the Assessor's site, but you can't get any document images. The Recorder's searches are just broken.
We have had to order all of the deeds and documents we want from the Recorder's Office (which has a little under 24 hour turn around).
It's working again. At least for me. Was out the last few days, but now seems to be working.
Different browsers tend to yield different results with the assessor's website search function.
Assessor's site is working for me. As far as I know, if you need a deed copy you will have to order it from the Recorder's web site.
You can usually pull up images of deeds on the assessors site too. That's what is broken.
Correct – the assessor's site lets you retrieve deeds going back to October 1999, anything before that isn't available, any after that are. There are times if I'm having issues with their site that switching from Firefox to Chrome or from Chrome to MS Edge will fix the issue, depending on which browser I'm trying it on at the time.
Honest answer – in life you are either winning or learning. If law practice is highly stressful and a serious problem in your life, take affirmative steps to decrease the emotional harm and stress. Focus on saving, retirement funds, getting yourself to feel the least pain from law practice. I am now 47 and see things differently and am singularly focused on taking on only manageable casework, and saving/investing like a maniac to escape. If you are younger, e.g. 35 and under, consider parlaying your law experience into another profession that would value your knowledge. Some people really thrive in law practice, others do not. Know if it your profession, your specific area of practice (e.g. family law versus criminal law or civil), your employer, or yourself (mental health is imperative to avoid a bad situation becoming worse) as the root cause(s) for your state of feeling bad (worse) and learning to pivot and step out when needed.
Agree. I have done with low paying work and thankless pro bono. I may earn less, but I won't be working weekends anymore.
Bar and CLEboard fill Nevada Supreme Court's coffers
I've been practicing for almost twenty years and from what I can tell, the attorneys that are very much into being lawyers as the main part of their identity end up having the hardest time when tough things happen (and they will and always do). If you are a spouse or parent, be one or both of those first, and lawyer second.
Law first, last, and everything in between. Anything less and you are just making a living.
that may work for you and others. to me it sounds like a recipe for divorce.
@3:06 – maybe you have and so this won't resonate – but lose a few family members, while they're on their death bed guess what they're not talking about – their career. Family, love, community all must come first for a fulfilled life. Anyone who does not see this will eventually learn this the hard way.
9:24– While I generally agree with much of what you say, let me offer the flip side which is in many cases want to know who is visiting lawyers on their death bed? Want to know who is at a lawyer's funeral? Look at the picture of Harry Claiborne's funeral yesterday (Wednesday). Phil Pro out front. Rick Wright and George Foley Sr. on the casket. Clients, dignitaries, fellow lawyers lined as far back as the picture will show. When I got deathly sick, my family was irreplaceable. But I had countless clients, coworkers and fellow counsel who reached out and were there for me. They are my community and my family, and I love them for being there for me. Being a lawyer is my community.
Does anyone know if a new judge has been appointed or whatever to Department 11 and who the new judge is? I have a case that still says Gonzalez is assigned, but she is listed as retired and working at ARM now.
There was an admin order that came out reassigning her cases. I think they were split between Kishner and Johnson
Department XI's business court cases were reassigned. Department XI still has a docket and cases and is still conducting business. (I think Gibbons was sitting in XI this week).