But, But, Honey

  • Law
  • The U.S Supreme Court has 10 decisions to issue before wrapping up the term, some of which are expected this morning. [SCOTUSblog]
  • David Chesnoff appointed to Homeland Security Advisory Council. [RJ]
  • Las Vegas woman convicted after threatening federal judges and probation officer. [KTNV]
  • Lawsuit alleges inmate was held down, killed by corrections officers. [RJ]
  • Meanwhile, the AG insists there isn’t enough evidence to charge officers in another Las Vegas-area prison death. [8NewsNow]
  • Mike Dreiser will take over as new chair of the Gaming Control Board. [RJ]
  • Conflict of interest concerns raised in DUI case against man suing Las Vegas city marshals [KTNV]
  • Officer body cam footage from October 1 exists despite earlier claims. [8NewsNow]
  • Possible will for Tony Hsieh names 2 attorneys who never met him, documents say. [8NewsNow]
  • Not Vegas, but lawyer lives his nightmare calling appeals judge “honey” in heat of oral arguments. [ABA Journal]
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 8:35 am

Re the Colorado lawyer and his verbal slip: It happens. We train ourselves as best we can but it happens. This is what when a broadcaster has a verbal slip, we need to look and see was it just a slip of the tongue or evidence of something more invidious.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 10:07 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Oh, since I was a teenager, I’ve just loved being addressed as “Sweetheart,” “Honey,” “Darling,” “Babe,” “Doll,” “Girl,” and “Sweetie.” It’s been such a delightful experience, especially when those terms are used in a totally non-condescending, super professional way. And of course, who could forget the opposing counsel who, despite knowing my name, still feel the need to call me by one of these charming nicknames in the courtroom? I’ve got a real positive opinion of those who prefer this kind of communication.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 10:22 am
Reply to  Anonymous

“Babe” would send me into orbit.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 10:57 am
Reply to  Anonymous

My spouse and I call each other “babe” and “honey” interchangeably all the time. I talk to them more than anyone else I know, so the terms get used a lot. Sometimes, terms we use a lot slip out in high stress, or off the cuff moments. I would NEVER in a million years call a colleague “babe” or say, “I love you” as I hang up on a call with my paralegal, but it sure is a fear of mine.

That absolutely seems like what happened here. Worst nightmare.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 7:25 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

On at least a couple of occasions I have caught myself almost telling my paralegal “love you” before hanging up the phone. It can happen to the best of us, particularly if under stress, etc.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 11:50 am
Reply to  Anonymous

I’m sympathetic here. Having had the good fortune of making many Ninth Circuit appearances, when those questions are coming in hot and heavy from the Justices time feels simultaneously frozen and warp speed. There is a natural tendency towards utterances while we are transitioning our thoughts but that can be heavy in the moment pressure. I’m sure that will haunt him for months.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 1:11 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Easy and understandable slip.

Especially if you are more familiar with a frustrated woman (wife) that you are trying to get to see reason and she refuses.

Personally, I usually precede, “Honey” with “Calm Down”.

Works like a charm.
But, yeah never in court and with Clark County headed for an all female bench, you really have to keep your brain in gear at all times when speaking.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 5:13 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Lol

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 27, 2025 8:54 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Then say, “stop being hysterical” and she will love you forever.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 9:01 am

Practice tip question for those of you who splash around in Justice Court. If NRS 69.030 says that the prevailing party gets their fees and costs, why would a Plaintiff ever need an OoJ in Justice Court? Seems like Defendants could use them to cut off statutory rights but Plaintiffs would never need to use them.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 9:11 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Because there is case law that says to be a “prevailing party” you must recover money. There is also case law that says to be a prevailing party you just need to prevail on a significant issue on your case. It’s less than clear.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 10:59 am
Reply to  Anonymous

You can ONLY recover money in Justice Court. There is no equitable relief available.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 11:49 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Pedantic note – you can also get possession of property.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 7:35 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Touche

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 10:48 am

No doubt in my mind that Colorado lawyer talks the same dismissive way to his wife–talking down to her when he thinks he is just “explaining.” He does this in his mind to most women subconsciously.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 12:37 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

@10:48 you’re single, ain’t ya honey?

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 4:09 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

If you are representative of the choices available, I’m sure most single women are happily so.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 1:13 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

This right here is why so many young men are refusing to date/marry women raised in this country.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 1:14 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Based

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 3:52 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

I think the reason, young men and women aren’t dating is because young women don’t wanna be called “honey.” They don’t want to be dismissed. They wanted to be treated as an equal. Men aren’t willing to do that yet which is obvious from this comment section.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 4:23 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

If only this issue were so simple that we could impose the tired narrative of misogyny upon it.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 4:19 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Yes, charming fellas, those incels.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 12:32 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

AnD tHeN i CaLlEd HiM aN iNcEl

It’s weird how often women call me an incel online.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 2:29 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

10:48 is clearly right. A woman judge asked a pointed question and the dude responded “but honey” in the most dismissive way imaginable. He might not have meant to say it, but he meant it. This lawyer said “honey” because the disrespect was present in his mind. This isn’t a matter of mush mouth where someone says impleader when they mean interpleader.

Also, holy cow. 10:48 points out misogyny and gets met with even more misogyny. I sometimes forget how hard it must be for women, but I got reminded today. Lots of “Jacob Reynolds voters” in the comments today, I guess.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 2:55 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

This comment is preposterous. Watch the video. The guy is mortified to the point of apoplexy and cannot apologize firmly enough. He is contrite and apologetic. He did not in any manner say it in a dismissive way. This guy is being crucified for a mistake that he knew was a mistake. If he blew threw it and never apologized and showed no contrition I would light the torches and pull out the pitchforks. But this is an unfortunate accident for which we have no evidence is a pattern.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 3:48 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

No one is saying he wasn’t mortified after the fact. Just pointing out his unconscious bias.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 4:29 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

It’s wild that you conclude “unconscious bias” is the only plausible explanation for this.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 4:48 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Occam’s Razor

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 4:25 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

“This lawyer said “honey” because the disrespect was present in his mind.” Where did you get your psychology degree?

Sometimes our brains just misfire. I’ve seen people giving secular, public speeches close “In the name of Jesus Christ Amen” not because they are trying to convert the audience, but because, under pressure, their brain misfired. Occam’s razor is for the most plausible explanation, not the most cynical. Too many people conflate those two.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 4:58 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

“But honey.” https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8Y4RfEGuE3E

I don’t think you can conclude anything other than he was talking down to her as if she didn’t understand what was at issue.

I think we can simultaneously acknowledge the unconscious bias/unconscious sexism and feel sorry for this guy. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 5:58 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Because women never use disrespectful names in the course of arguments. Only men do that. https://www.ktnv.com/13-investigates/family-court-judge-facing-discipline-for-pattern-of-misconduct

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 27, 2025 9:52 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Just watched the clip, does anyone wonder if he actually is attracted to her? Like this is a term of endearment? I am in NO WAY defending this, excusing this, or in any way mitigating how it was wrong – just trying to psychoanalyze which is a dangerous sport this dude for a second – because that is consistent with his pull back in the moment – he is also younger – from all that I read, I was imagining some 60 plus attorney speaking – this guy is young – maybe not even 40 – – – just a thought –

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 9:57 am
Reply to  Anonymous

His tone is one of condescension. At least that’s how I read him.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 5:22 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

I strongly suspect the person in your anecdote that closed the secular, public speech with the words “In the name of Jesus Christ Amen” was a devout Christian who spoke those words often. The words and intention were in his brain, but he didn’t want to share them out loud. The brain misfired, sure, but it misfired by speaking out loud the words meant to stay in his brain.

Same as the Colorado guy

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 7:26 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Oh give me a break. Love you.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 27, 2025 12:58 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

I tend to take a more charitable approach – he was temporarily possessed by Colonel H. Stinkmeaner. Upon coming back to his senses, he was mortified. Had he continued his oral argument, Stinkmeaner may have taken additional control, proclaiming “Lady Liberty’s got balls!”

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 10:52 am

I know he’s phenomenal at criminal defense but I’m sorry: what business does Chesnoff have in the Dept of Homeland Security??? ???

I like some of the gaga songs, wtf does she know about cameras???????? https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HZOa0yI7dOY

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 11:05 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Plus, he went to law school in Boston. How can he possibly support MAGA?

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 11:42 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Many Trump appointments are live grenades that eventually maim or kill the appointee. This one is distant enough from Trump, and low profile enough that Chesnoff is probably pretty safe.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 12:23 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Right… that still doesn’t mean he’s remotely qualified or has any experience in homeland security!

Former Attorney
Guest
Former Attorney
June 26, 2025 12:42 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Spoiler alert: he doesn’t have experience nor do 99% of Trump’s other appointees.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 2:55 pm

He has more experience than the guy whose credentials for the panel were “President, Bikers for Trump”

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 3:17 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

and that’s our standard now???

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 1:12 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

It doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have the requisite experience. You don’t know anymore than I do.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 2:43 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Oh please. I know that he’s spent the past however many decades practicing criminal law in mostly state court. I assume we should give ole donny the benefit of the doubt on Linda McMahon, too, because we simply can’t know whether she has a background in education policy such that she should be appointed to run a federal agency. Embarrassing line of reasoning from (presumably) an attorney.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 27, 2025 7:32 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Last time I checked the hallmark of a solid practitioner was to never speak in absolutes and to always be objective, almost to the point of absurdity.

Unfortunately, the conclusions drawn from your statement[s] belie your biases and you decided subjectivity on the subject of presidential appointments these days.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 11:30 am
Reply to  Anonymous

You certainly sound like the type of effective counsel I’d want in my corner.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 9:00 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Chesnoff is not running a government agency (unlike McMahon). This is a board and by appearances just a ceremonial board.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 11:32 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Well that addresses all of my concerns, thanks!

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 11:49 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Is he paid out of public funds to be a board member? Travel paid? Per diems?

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 1:04 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

He has the one qualification that matters to being appointed to any position in the United States federal government these days: proven loyalty to Israel.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 1:44 pm

I am two pay days away from no more social security tax for the rest of the year. What a fuckin scam that is.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 1:49 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

SS is supposed to be a supplement and not your entire retirement income.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 4:27 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

If we were allowed to invest the social security taxes we pay, it would be a FULL retirement, not merely a supplement. That’s part of why it’s a fuckin scam. People have paid in dearly and can only hope for a trickle back.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 8:01 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Except when the market crashes.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 1:40 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

“Except when the market crashes.”

It blows my mind (don’t disbar me OBC!) that some people are this financially incompetent. Do you know what the chances of losing money in the stock market is over the course of 30 years?

No 30-year rolling period from 1926 to present has had a negative return. NONE. NOT ONE. Even starting in the Great Depression or before major crashes, a 30-year investor came out ahead. The risk literally approaches ZERO.

Honestly, it is terrifying that anyone is so financially incompetent, much less someone with an advanced degree.

If the stock market were to lose money over a 30 year period, you couldn’t count on social security anyway because a loss like that could only really happen if there was a total society collapse, total anarchy.

There is no defense for the way that Social Security robs people.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 9:54 am
Reply to  Anonymous

True but pulling the rug out from those on SS now, would not be the right thing to do either – if a change will come for SS, it has to be prospectively

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 10:00 am
Reply to  Anonymous

In other words, screw gen x?

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 10:12 am
Reply to  Anonymous

That has been the Boomer plan all along!

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 1:41 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Boomers have taken enough. Time to cut them off.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 30, 2025 9:20 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Agreed. Investing a portion of Social Security reserves in low-cost index funds could bolster long-run solvency and share market gains with workers—but only if paired with up-front financing and robust safeguards that wall off politicians from portfolio decisions. Without that fiscal foundation, stocks look less like a lifeline and more like a gamble that could deepen the very shortfall policymakers hope to solve.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 30, 2025 10:19 am
Reply to  Anonymous

I would like to submit my application for Social Security to invest surplus funds in my thriving business. Guaranteed high returns, only mildly pyramid-shaped. Whose palms do I need to grease?

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 30, 2025 10:22 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Have you not been paying attention? All decisions in the executive branch are ultimately subject to the whims of the president, an inherently policical office. Safeguards are only as robust as the cronies that will enforce them. We don’t have a merit system anymore.

Last edited 16 days ago by Anonymous
Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 27, 2025 1:03 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Some people.

Social Security loses money. So that means that for those of use who end up putting in more than we’ll ever get out, there are even more folks who take out far more than they ever put in.

Social Security is only a benefit for the unproductive. It’s a straight up tax to the productive. A tax which gives no benefit.

I’m 62 and I plan to work another 4 years. I’d gladly give up Social Security benefits and the hundreds of thousands of dollars I’ve put into Social Security since I entered the worforce at age 16 today if I could just keep the money I’m going to contribute over the next 4 years! I’ve done the math.

For every person who works 30+ years of their life and earns an average income or above, Social Security fucking sucks dogshit. For the shiftlesss, unemployed, unproductive, and low-paid, it’s a Godsend.

Last edited 19 days ago by Anonymous
Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 1:12 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

The quote “Welfare is a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit” was attributed to Franklin D. Roosevelt by Ronald Reagan in his 1986 State of the Union Address.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 1:16 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

I had a crappy pro bono case from Legal Aid where the parties were fighting over custody because the “winner” would receive the $50.00 per month social security benefits for the special needs child. It was so awful I considered giving them each $50 per month for 5 years if they stopped fighting and did what was best for their child. OMG.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 1:35 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

I agree with this sentiment, but I want to clarify and rebut this: “Social Security loses money. So that means that for those of use who end up putting in more than we’ll ever get out, there are even more folks who take out far more than they ever put in.”

The most obscene financial losses in Social Security aren’t from redistribution. I can live with, and actually support, redistribution as a social safety net. The indefensible loss of money comes from inflation and the time value of money.

Go do the math. If you saved nothing for retirement other than what you put into SS, and that money had been invested in an index fund, you’d be able to fund a (very modest) retirement. Instead, we receive a monthly check that barely covers a mortgage payment, if that.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 28, 2025 11:51 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Not to mention the windfall that currently retired PERS employees just got big fat dick refunds from SSA because of the law changes.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 2:55 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Just turned 65. I’m more than happy with my Medicare and SS issues. Just a lowly ID lawyer, who by the way has quit the practice. Nevada tort litigation is a cess pool.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 4:26 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

You are ok with all the time value of money that was stolen from you? Are you nuts?

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 9:53 am
Reply to  Anonymous

What’s the scam? Social security or the tax to fund it?

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 10:32 am
Reply to  Anonymous

I think the scam perspective reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of Social Security. It is not a retirement account that you pay into while you work and then draw from after you retire, it’s a social safety net that is intended to reduce poverty in the elderly.

There’s a progressive tax aspect where high earners subsidize lower earners but also aspects like the cap mentioned above intended to encourage those who are able to earn more while they’re physically able to do so. It’s broken in a lot of ways but putting the program in context helps frame the conversation in a more honest way.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 10:46 am
Reply to  Anonymous

I consider it to be a scam, and I am well aware of the distinction you make that this is a social safety net.

These funds are taken by the government and immediately spent. It wasn’t always that way. Because the funds are not saved or invested, they are decimated by inflation (as to future benefits) while losing unfathomable value because of the time value of money.

If we had privatized social security, as W proposed before 9/11, there would be more money for both the disadvantaged to whom we redistribute AND for those of us who are high earners.

The fact that this is a social safety net does not excuse the absolutely horrendous way these funds are utilized. Inflation and the time value of money hurt everyone, especially the poor who would otherwise receive greater benefits. It’s a terrible program. I resent every penny I pay into it. I am gonna be fuckin livid if the cap is ever lifted. I’ve paid WELL into six figures into this program, and if that money had been invested, I would be better off and we could have helped FAR MORE poor people. It’s a fuckin travesty. Fuck Social Security.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 5:36 pm

Re honey, I always called my gf “hun” then in gym I asked a guy for a dumbbell by him “hey can u hand that to me hun.” Sometimes brain just goes autopilot.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 5:47 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

In my pre-lawyer days, I smacked a married co-worker’s fine ass because my brain was on auto-pilot.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 7:34 am
Reply to  Anonymous

I accidentally once grabbed my sister in laws hand to hold while walking because my brain was on autopilot. . . .
She, unlike some of the hunny’s on this blog was a good sport about it.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 8:59 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Lots of harpies in this thread.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 9:55 am
Reply to  Anonymous

What’s a harpie?

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 10:46 am
Reply to  Anonymous

In Greek mythology a “harpy” is a creature with a bird body and woman’s head. In the context of this thread a “harpy” is meant as a bitchy, opinionated, and/or outspoken woman

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 26, 2025 7:14 pm

Has anyone switched from insurance defense to Plaintiff’s PI? If so, are you happy with your decision?

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
June 26, 2025 9:17 pm
Reply to  Anonymous

Yes. Most good PI lawyers were all former ID lawyers. Eglet, Vannah, etc are all former insurance defense lawyers. I know I will never go back to ID grind and you should leave asap too.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 8:57 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Keyword: good. There are lots of ID people who thought they were Vannah or Eglet and quickly learned that it is not that easy.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 9:24 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Do you believe in the plaintiff cause and actually helping people? If not, you will suck, unless you are a sociopath that is into it purely for the competition. Defending a case is much easier than pursuing a case. The defense always has the same arguments. The Plaintiff has to overcome something unique in every case. Juries dislike the plaintiff out the gate because they are asking for money, so they are not trusted. People think it is easy money, but if you want to do trials, it is much harder. To get fair settlements you will need to do trials.

Last edited 19 days ago by Anonymous
Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 9:43 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Is defending a case really that much easier? It seems like reputable PI firms do at least some vetting of their cases. On the defense side, you don’t really get to vet your cases and a lot of times are assigned cases that are complete crap on both on liability and causation/damages. It also seems like no matter how well you work the case up on the defense side, the cases still settle for much more than they should.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 10:44 am
Reply to  Anonymous

The good thing about defense work is that you dont have 100+ cases like you do as a Plaintiff’s lawyer. It allows you to dive into your files and learn them/litigate them.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 9:19 am

I always forget to go to the Civil Bench/Bar Meetings but if one of you who does attend who interject a question for me: 2 weeks to issue a Summons and 4 weeks to issue a Writ indicates a Clerk’s Office that is falling apart. Can someone find out what is going on that is hamstringing us from getting these issued?

Anonymous
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Anonymous
June 27, 2025 9:33 am
Reply to  Anonymous

Similarly the Probate Commissioner just announced that they lost a staff member and know that they are weeks behind on issuing orders.