- Quickdraw McLaw
- Job Tips
- 42 Comments
- 403 Views
This U.S. News article called “What Type of Salary Can You Expect With a Law Degree?” discusses paycheck size for J.D. recipients straight out of school. What are your thoughts about how this translates to the Vegas market? Is it even close to accurate? What would you say to a new lawyer about salary expectations here? What would you say those lawyers who have been working for 10+ years and make less than what first years make now? What salary advice can you offer that could change someone’s life?
Market rate for first year salaries at law firms has gotten much higher. I would set it in Vegas around 115-125, with some firms as high as 165 (or higher).
What Nevada firms pays first years 165k? What firms pay first years more than 165k?
Snell and Wilmer, Lewis and Roca, etc. Several of the larger firms that do business and commercial litigation.
A lot of firms pay that much. Even smaller local firms that bill the associates at $325+.
Leave your current job if you are underpaid – even if you've been at the job for a long time. It's not worth it to stay because you won't be able to keep pace with inflation, and your firm isn't going to automatically value you at your worth partners rarely want to pay associates more "just because." It's not uncommon for young attorneys to switch jobs several times in the course of a few years for higher pay, better opportunities, and more training. And young lawyers seem to be more willing to hang a shingle and be successful at it.
The goal of every firm management is to snag associates at the lowest rate possible. The issue you run into is profitability. While the market changes, the billing rates for associates in most firms remains fairly stagnant. So if a firm is paying you 115k and you produce around 1800 billable hours at an average of $165.00 per hour for an entry level associate – you make the firm $297,000.00 in profit if every hour is paid. The average cuts are at least 15% – which brings your profitability to $252,450.00, your overhead, depending on the firm is anywhere between $50,000.00 to $75,000.00 between benefits, secretary, paralegal split and office space. So factor your salary plus overhead, if you are earning the firm at least $100,000.00 per year, you are profitable.
Some firms should look into raising rates too.
945,,, that is very useful math which i believe most firms attempt to not inform associates of. When i left government i thought i was getting a great job and realized it was woefully underpaid and took a couple hops to get to market price as it were. I think if i'd had a better grasp of that math coming out i would have been able to negotiate better but it seemed like i was getting such a 'great raise' from govt that i rushed in. In hindsight it explains why i was getting job offers by the end of the day with the firms i interviewed with because my perceived market value was nowhere close.
I am a 2nd associate and based on my calculations (collected hours, billable rate, salary & average overhead), I expect my firm will earn appx. $300,000 on me this year. How do I bring this up come Christmas bonus time? What is a reasonable bonus to expect based on this (I was one of the firm's top billers)? Any advice or insight is appreciated
11:59: You go to them, point out your value, and ask for the money.
If they say yes, great.
If they say no, spend the next six months becoming closer with your clients. Get to know them and give them insanely good service. Make sure that you're close enough with them that you know reasonably well that they'll go with you if/when you leave. Once you've secured that bond, start talking to other firms or gathering financing to start your own firm.
Question for 9:45 – where is anyone still billing $165/hr? I was billing that 30 years ago and it was low even then.
4:58 PM – Insurance defense firms. Slip and falls, car accidents.
It's hard to know if I'm underpaid or overpaid. 12 years, $220k. Litigation (not P.I.).
My guess on 9:30: business litigation, big/regional firm. If yes, probably about right on the salary.
That's not uncommon for a 12 year (I assume Partner level) compensation. In fact its toward the middle in any major law firm. Does this include both performance and discretionary bonuses? When I was working as a Partner in an intermediate national law firm at 12 years I was making around $250k with bonus structures available to me. At 12 years, you should have your own clients, your own book of business that is transferable and you are bringing real value to the firm.
9:30 here. Small firm. Non-equity partner (which is so cringe to call yourself a partner when you have no equity). $220 includes performance bonuses. I manage files, two associates and two paralegals and have my own book. I have no idea what my peers make. Sometimes it feels like they make A LOT more, sometimes A LOT less. If you saw my house, what I drive, what I spend money on you could be forgiven for thinking I make less than $100k. It's tough to get a feel for what people make.
What can you do if you are 6+ years out in government and want to earn more by going to private? How to build a book of business?
220 for a partner sounds low if if it includes bonuses and you manage two associates.
I think 220 sounds pretty good for small firm pay
At your level you should have all the information you need to know if you are over or under paid. You should have all the financial information to make that determination. I heard once (by a greedy firm) that you should bring in receipts 3x's your salary. Later on I realized some of those 3x's salary firms had insane and irresponsible overhead, and also lined the partner pockets at the expense of a fair comp package. Having said that – your firm should be using some formula – whether it's 3x's your salary, or requiring a specific sum for originations, plus receipts – something. It truly doesn't make sense to me that you can't assess. Also for example – if you're able to pull down a higher billable rate (between $350 and $600 an hour – or even more for some people) – your comp will always be higher than the attorney who can only command the $225hr defense firm rates (range). Stated in another way (shorter way) – do the math, then you'll know if you're under or over paid.
Also curious about 10:52's questions.
Lawyers can run the numbers. The metric that we have used is: (a) 17% of a business collected that you originate; (b) 33% of any business collected that you work; (c) 50% of any business collected that originate and work. Firm escrows 50% of collections for overhead, secretaries, rent and staff.
This is going to trigger a few, but I hate that the taxpayers fund a civil self help center and free interpreters to pro per litigants at civil hearings.
While I'm at it, Get Off My Lawn!
What is the alternative?
They pay for it themselves.
Easy there Walt Kowalski.
Not sure about free interpreters. My clients have to pay for their interpreters in civil cases. As far as the Civil Law Self-Help Center, the savings are immeasurable as opposed to pro pers clogging up the courts with utter nonsense. Judges can push them out the door.
The alternative is we stop letting the crazies drain court resources. So many of these pro pers, sovereigns, dead beat parents, etc. have no valid claims and yet our judges bend over backwards to give them "access to justice" and generally refuse to declare them vexatious. Some of these idiots have tried more cases than people on this blog.
Did someone lose to a pro per and is all butthurt?
RJ saying teens run over policeman were laughing at victims family. Should bring back burning at the stake.
Fuck those animals.
1:21 obviously has a talent for highly effective use of brevity, and wins post of the week
That post very powerfully, and very succinctly, summarizes how I believe virtually all civilized, and even semi-civilized, people feel about those miscreants in question.
1:1 here. I'll make a less succinct comment. Right after the crime, I looked up Jzamir Keys on Facebook, like a lot of people do. There were some very old pictures of a cute little boy graduating from elementary school, being celebrated by family. Somehow, between then and now he went from being a boy full of light and promise to an irredeemable animal that, but for SCOTUS, deserves to be put down. I don't know what exactly that story is, but it's surely a tragedy.
We can all do more to be involved in the lives of young people.
"deserves to be put down" – yep, much like one would put down a rabid dog – these two are a special category of next-level sociopath
https://twitter.com/kmcannonphoto/status/1716940961937547427
That's so disturbing
Any bankruptcy attorneys in town care to share their compensation structure?
Commercial litigation/bankruptcy. Small firm. Eat what I kill at $450 an hour.
How many years of practice?
What does eat what you kill mean?
I believe it means earn from the clients you bring in like you must generate your own clients. Maybe someone else has a better definition.
Eat what you kill means there is no salary. Usually you get a portion of your collected fees (35-70% depending on the firm). Clearly with the hourly rate that was creditor side