- Quickdraw McLaw
- 16 Comments
- 487 Views
Today marks the first day of school for Clark County and everyone’s favorite local law school, William S. Boyd School of Law. In honor of that fact, we want to know if any of you have any great stories from the first day of law school. Any memorable introductions to the Socratic method? Anyone have any advice for the 1Ls who are starting their short and relatively painless journey to unemployed JD today?
It is now widely known that most law schools, including UNLV, have an employment rate of just over 50% 9 months after graduation (when measuring, full-time, permanent jobs that require bar passage).
Given this, it is astounding to me that anyone would enroll in law school in 2013. Honestly, Boyd 1L's, I look at you and think you must be some of the dumbest people on the planet.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=nevada
Just how stupid are these kids? They're going to pay $25k/year (residents) or $35k/year (non-residents) at 6.8% interest on loans that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy for a 60% shot at landing a job as an attorney in Vegas where entry salaries are around just $70,000.00 a year- in many instances, much less!
Keep in mind that these figures do not include undergrad debt that these kids carry, nor does that include debt incurred to pay for living expenses. According to Law School Transparency, today's entering class at UNLV will pay $210,663 (non-discounted cost for non-residents) and $168,831 (non-discounted cost for residents) for their degree!
I defy any of you to make an argument that a law degree from UNLV is worth $200,000.00.
So my advice to the 1L's is this – think long and hard about the fact that for a substantial portion of you, today is the turning point for what will unquestionably be the worst financial and professional decision of your entire lives.
First day as a 1L, a 3L told me that the secret to law school was to remember a simple math equation:
C = JD
To 8:16's comment of "I defy any of you to make an argument that a law degree from UNLV is worth $200,000.00.":
Prior to attending law school at UNLV I was working in an entirely different career field and making appx. $45k per year. That career probably would have topped out in the $60k range.
I decided to go back to school, and change my career.
Now, several years out of law school, I make appx. $100k per year. Where it tops out…who knows.
The simple math is that I am making appx $50k more now than in my prior career. Therefore, my law degree from UNLV is worth more than $200,000, provided I work for at least 4 years.
10:34 – Did you remember to factor in the three years you spent making nothing while a student at Boyd? During those three years, it sounds like you could have been earning $45-60k per year while not taking on debt at 6.8%. Those facts must be considered in your analysis. It may not entirely de-justify the decision, but is certainly makes the decision less justified.
I agree with 8:16 – all but maybe the top 40 or 50 law schools should simply be shuttered. What's happening now just isn't sustainable for law students or for the profession as a whole. Student loan borrowing is destroying the profession.
It never hurts to get chummy with the professors. Remember, they are the ones who got good grades in law school and are often in the best position to give you tips about how to get ahead. Also, make friends with the librarians.
The equation also changes if you factor in scholarships. Even if you only get a partial scholarship, that can make a big difference. Also, if you can work during the summer, or part-time during the school year, as a law clerk, you don't have to take on quite as much debt.
Other people may be looking at more than purely a financial analysis. If a legal career provides benefits outside of purely monetary gain, the expense can be justified. I'm a little too Mondayed to come up with the economists' terms for this, but I'm sure someone here can help out.
I'm not saying that law school is a smart decision for everyone, or even most people, but there is a lot more to consider.
10:34,
8:16 here.
A few thoughts.
First, you are suffering from a bit of survivor bias. 40% (!!!!) of UNLV grads do not have a permanant, full-time legal position requiring bar passage 9 months after graduation. It worked out for you (congratulations), but it doesn't for many others.
Second, you aren't telling me that you *know* you would have capped out at $60k had you not gone to law school, right? This assumes you would not have switched professions or found a way to make more money.
Third, as 10:58 correctly notes, you are forgetting about the opportunity costs of attending law school. You gave up $135k of income to attend law school, before the time value of money is factored in.
I just can't figure out what is going through these 1L's heads at Boyd. What on earth makes you think this will work out financially for you?
My guess is that, since most of them are Millenials, that they believe they are a Special Snowflake, because they have been told their whole lives that they are Special Snowflakes. You see, laws of averages and probability do not apply to Special Snowflakes, because they're SPECIAL. They are the exception to the rule. "Well, sure, 40% of Boyd grads don't get real lawyer jobs. They obviously didn't work hard enough, weren't smart enough etc, UNLIKE ME! I'm smart, so I'll finish in the top 10% and become a big shot at LSC or Brownstein. In fact, I stress over how I will choose between the two!"
I kid you not that a few days ago, I was looking at the FB of a 1L starting at Boyd today. He posted a picture of a luxury car and said, "In three years, I'll be driving one of these."
What a delusional idiot!
@1:17,
He may very well be driving one of those. But he'll be driving one for the owner in the backseat.
"The Bureau of Labor Statistics tells us that we now have 115,000 janitors, 83,000 bartenders, 323,000 restaurant servers, and 80,000 heavy-duty truck drivers with bachelor’s degrees — a number exceeding that of uniformed personnel in the U.S. Army." No word on the number of JD/janitors, but reason tells us x>1. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-17/end-u-s-student-loans-don-t-make-them-cheaper.html
Hey Mr. LawBlawg Guy: I know you are busy, and I appreciate the time you spend keeping this blog going for us, but when you get time, would you figure a way to add "like" buttons for us, so we can annotate comments. Yes, I am just that lazy. Thanks,
Your Fan.
Per the request of a fan, we're trying out Disqus to see if it will work for our purposes. Prior comments should show up sometime in the next 24 hours.
Testing posting as a guest.
Just another test.
The one who requested it should be shot, drawn and quartered, and shot again. Just sayin'.
survivor bias is hilarious. It all depends on the individual whether or not law school will be worth it. Granted it is not a golden meal ticket, but it can be a lucrative career and can be a steady line of work for anyone willing to put their nose to the grindstone.
Yo, Lawdawg: If you were wondering if Disqus would cut down on the amount of spam? I think you just got your answer.