- Quickdraw McLaw
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It’s that time of year again and you’re invited….
Be sure to check out the website at FiftyShadesofMay.com
What else is going on out there?
50 Shades of May
- Law
- Posted on 10 years ago
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So I wanted to throw this out there to see if anybody has some advice for me on a serious topic. I've been a litigator for the past 8 years or so and I'm decent at what I do. I went out on my own 3 years ago and have been pretty successful. However, I am extremely non-confrontational and I get anxiety every time I have to go to court for a big hearing (I don't have an issue getting confrontational during hearings, but it does make me uncomfortable). I always thought that the longer I practiced, the stress and anxiety would lessen. But it just keeps getting worse. I'm not a fan of taking meds, but my doctor has prescribed me Xanax that I only take when the anxiety gets so bad I can't handle it anymore.
A career change at this point would be financially devastating and I generally enjoy being an attorney. I just don't want to die of a heart attack before I turn 40. Do any of you have any tips on how to handle the stress? Should I see a therapist? Anybody know of any good therapists? Any help would be appreciated.
Therapists are great. I have high anxiety, routine panic attacks, etc and go to two shrinks (one for medication and one for talk). Anxiety-related illness is pretty common, and very manageable if you work at it. I highly recommend Dr. Mark Anderson with the Nevada Center for Behavioral Therapy. He deals only with anxiety and panic attacks.
Keep in mind that Xanax is a bit of a minefield because it is highly addictive and you can get a tolerance for it.
Fear of public speaking is fairly common. I had an absolutely paralyzing fear of public speaking and realized it during my undergraduate years. I joined Toastmasters 27 years ago and practiced public speaking – both from pre-written material and extemporaneous. Toastmasters is a great organization where you will receive solid support for this issue.
It took about a year of regular practice before my anxiety lifted; but after that time, I realized one day that it was gone. It got progressively easier and easier to speak in public as time went on – and it happened a lot more quickly than I had anticipated. I've successfully tried over 20 civil cases to verdict and have argued before the NSC – the anxiety simply does not exist any more. I speak easily and naturally now.
And I'm glad that I did not go the pharmaceutical route; that only treats the symptom, not the problem. You could end up with unanticipated negative consequences that way. This is not something that is effectively treated with a pill. Therapy might help and there are therapists who understand and treat this issue. I cannot speak to the efficacy of that type of therapy. Regular practice is what helped me.
The other option would be to do all the office litigation work yourself and hire someone to do your courtroom work.
Thanks for the advice. What is funny is that I don't generally have a fear of speaking in public. I think it's the adversarial nature of contested hearings that gives me the anxiety. As for the Xanax, I realize that it is just a bandaid and is not fixing the underlying problem, which is why I only use it sparingly and I usually only take a quarter of a pill. I'm not a fan of meds, but until I get this problem figured out, it's a bit of a necessary evil for me.
Not being snarky, but I was just wondering this morning about how med marijuana might work on the stresses of attorney-life! Man, you would be the most m-e-l-l-o-w and c-a-l-m trial lawyer cat out there. As long as it doesn't interfere with your ability to think logically or give you the giggles while in court, who knows…
I had the same problem, (maybe worse, since it included fear of public speaking) and the low dose of Xanax helped. As a previous commentator mentioned, if you continue to make these court appearances, gradually the anxiety does go away. I no longer need the Xanax. If you have a particularly stressful argument coming up, it helps to go observe arguments in that court for a few days before the appearance. Familiarity breeds less anxiety. As another commentator mentioned, you need to keep the Xanax usage to these more stressful arguments, or you will build a tolerance and it will not have the same effect. If you like the other aspects of your job, don't give it up because of this.
Take up meditation and mindfulness. All the benefits of prescription drugs without any of the nasty side effects or addictions.
+many on the recommendation to take up a mindfulness/meditation practice. For some information specific to the benefits of meditation to lawyers check out theanxiouslawyer.com.
You might also want to look into some conflict coaching. Funny how we as a profession insert ourselves into conflict as a matter of course but pay very little attention (as a profession) into working on our skills to successfully manage and interact with conflict.
Thank you for starting this post. That was courageous of you. For the last 15 years, I have loved being a lawyer. Now, 1 case, 1 case out of 15 years has me so tied up that I am going to retire. My client calls (great client) and I go into a tailspin because I know at least 3 hours of work was just added to my plate for that day. The other lawyer (who needs a lesson on civility) calls and I want scream. Nasty is the kindest adjective I can use. When I work on this case, I become so depressed and anxiety ridden that I can only go home and sleep. My solution: getting out. I am going to take an "early" retirement (fortunately, I've always been a saver). This is no longer fun. This case bled all the joy out of being a lawyer. Thanks for sharing your story. It lets me know I'm not alone with the anxiety issues.
@4:29 – I'm the original poster and I appreciate hearing your story. I wish you luck in retirement and it's awesome that you feel secure enough to do so now. But you actually sound like one of those attorneys who is decent to deal with and I feel like we need more of those around. Unfortunately, I think there are too many "nasty" attorneys around who thrive on conflict. We deal with crappy clients all day, I don't understand why we have to be dicks to each other.
I am poster 4:29. I've been a solo almost all my career. The new "zip code" lawyers (those with bar numbers that look like zip codes) are, for the most part, unreasonable. It's as if they want to litigate as an excuse to pick their client's pocket. On the other hand, I'm all about the settlement because at the end of the day, I sleep well knowing that I have done the right thing. I am not a rocket scientist, I'm not perfect, I'm not the best lawyer on the block but I am an advocate for my client. It's regrettable that too many lawyers now believe that an advocate is a synonym that allows them to be an a**hole.
Asshole is too kind a weird for other attorneys out there. Don't worry, kharma happens.
I used to have very similar issues. You probably won't like this answer, but the overpowering stress/anxiety became completely manageable as soon as I left my religion and started having a glass of red wine every night. It was probably a combination of walking away from church duties (5-10 hours per week) and the wine that balanced my life out. I can honestly say I have never been happier – I love the fact that I can go home and truly relax at night. I was fortunate to find the CES Letter (www.cesletter.com) which made it possible for me to completely remove religious guilt from my life so it was a win-win. I hope you can figure out what is best for you – anyone who has put in the work and dedication to become a lawyer deserves to create a good life.
You should look into mindfulness meditation. Find a group or therapist that can teach how to meditate properly
Dr. Patrick Scott and Donna Wilburn. As attorneys, we all handle tremendous stress and many, if not most, of us need help to manage it. Both these people are very good and work with many high level professionals. I think Dr. Scott is particularly good with men, as he is able to understand their perspective and share his experience. The key is to deal with it now before resorting to drugs or alcohol to manage the stress. Congratulations on having the courage to ask. So many people don't and they can end up in some pretty dark places.
Thanks for the recommendation. Fortunately, I don't drink, gamble or smoke, so those aren't issues for me. But I've never had to resort to meds in the past to manage my issues, which is what worries me. I'm trying to seek some other remedy before things get any worse.
I have been self medicating with copious amounts of liquor and swimming for years. Is Dr. Scott a real therapeutic professional or some hack who wants to validate my feelings? Thank you.
How expensive are therapy sessions? I doubt my health insurance will cover it.
Dear 10:41: Now that you have the money from the McCann Erickson buyout, you can take the time to get your head together. Don't marry your secretary again, stop flirting with your daughter's friends, and be nicer to Peggy. Have you considered moving to California? I hear it's nice.
9:09 here. Dr. Scott is a real professional, not someone who will just give you a hug and validate your feelings. As he explains, it is normal for our stress to increase as we get older. People tell us just to push through and it will get better. It doesn't. As we get older, we get more responsibilities – more stress at work, marriage, kids, house, planning for financial security and retirement, etc. We also have fewer energy reserves, making doing our jobs more difficult. He teaches real techniques to help with generalized anxiety as well as situational anxiety. Meds aren't for everyone, but some people need them. Whichever category you fit in, I hope it works out well for you.
Counseling is usually self-pay. Most people don't want to create a medical history on it anyway. I don't recall exactly how much he charges, but he is reasonable. Also, way cheaper than the alternative!
This guy: Patrick R. Scott, LCSW, (702) 922-7015? Confirm and I will be making an appointment. Time for healing. Thank you!
Counseling is usually self-pay because it is self-pity. Solipsism is never the answer. For me, the routine is simple. Confess. Repent. Penance. Pray. Repeat.
@12:50 – That may work for you, but some people have real mental health issues that have nothing to do with confessionals or repentance. There's nothing wrong with seeking out a mental health professional to help you deal with the stress and anxiety that normally comes with our line of work. If more attorneys did it, we might not have so many problems with alcohol, drugs and gambling addictions.
That is the one, but I don't recognize the number you listed. Here is a link to his bio: https://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/name/Patrick_Ross_Scott_PhD,LCSW,FAPA,DCSW,CHT_Las+Vegas_Nevada_57473. Use the Ft. Apache office. It is more private and higher end.
@12:50 – I'm sure there is a junior high locker room near you that would love your witty repartee. We don't need your judgment.
@ 1:58. I view anxiety as a normal response to an extremely abnormal situation, rather than a "mental health issue." That sounds so clinical and like an affliction. People aren't supposed to be in constant conflict and under immeasurable stress. But, I appreciate the back up in any case.
These parking lot parties are a lot of fun. In general, Richard Harris has more hot women at his parties than does Craig P. Kenny. However, Kenny's parties tend to be more fun and less uptight. Discuss.
By the way, both of those guys really seem to enjoy themselves and the opportunity to invite the community over to their places for some relaxation. Good on 'em.
Ya if he could only get some hot guys to show up this year it would be more fun. The young policemen are a good start.
Amen, sista!
I'll be there, ladies! But I'm married so you can look but you can't touch! And I would appreciate it if you could at least pay attention to my mind and my personality instead of just my body, thank you.
Attorneys over at Dicks are Right, I am sorry, Dickinson Wright like to spank!
You have to be very brave or very stupid to hang out downtown after sundown.
This party sounds gross. It would not surprise me to see the bevy of beauties who use to work for Harris.
Will Gina Bongiovi be at the Harris party?
I don't know Gina, but your post intrigued me, so I google her. A couple of thoughts about the first two lines of her bio on her firm's website.
First, to call one's self a "Corporate Consigliere" seems really odd, especially given the mafia related connotation of "consigliere."
Second, she says she is "one of the few native Las Vegans left in town." A – how does she know that, and B- why is it so important to everyone in this town to be a "native?" Who gives a rat's ass?
Gina Bongiovi is odd, and that is being nice. I am amazed that people even hire her; she is a joke. Bad, bad self-promotion.
Gina sucks!
SCOTUS upholds Florida ban on elected judges soliciting campaign contributions:
"Judges are not politicians, even when they come to the bench by way of the ballot. And a State’s decision to elect its judiciary does not compel it to treat judicial candidates like campaigners for political office. A State may assure its people that judges will apply the law without fear or favor—and without having personally asked anyone for money."
Nice job, Florida!
This will NEVER happen in Nevada. Move along. Nothing to see here.
Right. How sad it would be if judges couldn't call and "invite" you to join "the campaign" with a piddling donation of "$5,000." See you at the fundraiser, Victor!
I imagine there are few if any places in the US where the judicial elections and fundraising tactics are as unseemly as they are here. To call these scumsuckers "your honor" makes me want to take a Purell bath.
ROFLMFAO!
Appreciate the referrals to therapists, very timely. I want so much to give up, confrontation has gotten worse instead of better. The only reason I stick around in this life is because I'd never do that to my kids.
WTF is up with the level of vitriol toward other attorneys? It has gotten worse. It seems like the better case I have the more threatening the other attorneys get. I have even had a few instances were I was sexually harassed by opposing counsel. This has got to stop, or the Bar could have some real problems.
Seconding this – I had wondered if it was just because I am a female attorney… I've even had male attorneys stand idle as their clients threatened and attempted to bully me. And of course attorneys themselves that behave that way.
Is the economy to blame? People taking cases and scrambling to churn fees? I get being an advocate but there's a line between that and just trying to bully. Maybe it gets them results but I won't behave that way. It's exasperating trying to do your job and knowing no judge is going to hold counsel accountable for the rules.
I had a case opposite another Boyd grad that I had in a few classes, so we were familiar with each other. He had taken the case pro bono, a justice court action for less than $2k, and asked for sanctions on three different grounds, including because I, the defendant's attorney, was delaying this litigation to generate fees. The justice court didn't even address the claims but I was literally stunned. After experiencing a few more fun scenarios like that, I no longer work in litigation. My life is so much better now.
10:20 – call Mitch at LCL; there's help out there
6:08 and 8:44 – I am approaching 20 years in practice here. The behaviors you describe are not new phenomena. This profession attracts dickheads. You have an advantage if you're not one. You'll live a better life. Take the high road.
When you feel that your safety is in peril, I would report it to the judge. We are paying their salaries. Bar doesn't give a shit!
I am a young female attorney, married, and I am tired of disgusting, old male attorneys hitting on me. I mean like 20-30 years older than me. It is disgusting, and completely out of line. It pisses my cop husband off!
I love the male partners who think younger associates and support staff are his dating pool.
Those Christmas bonuses are not enough.
I am a very successful and handsome middle aged male attorney and I find it sickening how often I am propositioned by young female associates and paralegals looking to cash in on the early retirement package. Sorry, darlings, I am not trading in my appreciating assets for your depreciating ones, and I am too picky nowadays to even enter into a short term lease arrangement.
Yeah, you should not give up your career, Jackie Collins.
9:55 – that is some RedPill shit right there. Nice.
I would be happy if someone hit on me, but with a face like mine, the best I can hope for is a fist from opposing counsel.
Spoken like a true middle-aged male attorney.
Is that invite a spoof? It was really creepy.
When I see these other posters talking about the lack of civility, it reminds me of a few attorneys I've dealt with who are always very polite in person, but super dicks in their pleadings. I don't understand it at all. Then on top of it, the judges never seem to call them out. These guys actually seem to end up doing better in court than opposing counsel with better legal arguments and professional briefs. WTF?
In the day and age of short term thinking, quick gratification and overall laziness, the quickest and shortest route to persuasiveness in briefs is the Jerry Springer method. Your honor, defendant kicks puppies!
Most judge, at least in my experience, see right through the horse shit. If you have to be nasty in court and in pleadings, you are shitty lawyer, and your case is even shittier.