- Quickdraw McLaw
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Unlike the fictional Denny Crane, very few lawyers, if any, will remain undefeated throughout their careers. And even if you somehow managed to win all the wars, there are certainly battles along the way where you emerge less than victorious. How you deal with those losses is almost as important as what you during the fight. So, how do YOU deal with losses in the practice of law? Are you able to shake it off and move on to the next thing with ease? Do you drown your sorrows for a few days before you continue fighting? Are you the type that has the motion for reconsideration filed the next day? We all know how stressful this profession can be, so what tips do you have for dealing with this issue? What would you tell a young attorney who suffered that first demoralizing defeat before a judge? How do you break the bad news to clients? Any other tips on this topic?
Legal practice is not a meritocracy, you can work hard and still lose but at least you can make those lessons work for you in the next case.
Judging by the comments on this blog, I assume most lawyers get over a loss in the courtroom by posting on here about how inept and incapable of legal reasoning the judge is.
Laughing.
Those are not judges. They are clingons.
9:37–You identified the main problem I have with the highly subjective, and totally anonymous, method that is usually used to evaluate judicial performance.
Before I post any evaluations of a judge on a blog like this, or before I evaluate them on the survey, I hope to have at least several experiences with them over multiple cases.
But when someone simply posts that a judge is a clueless idiot, with no further details or elaboration offered, I wonder if the attorney is just upset about an isolated ruling form the judge that recently occurred.
And although veteran attorneys are guilty of that as well, usually a comment of the nature of "I was right on the law and the idiot judge blew the call"(but no further detail offered) is usually posted by a relatively young and/or relatively inexperienced lawyer.
Veterans with 15, 20 or 25 years of practice don't usually post that kind of material. They are far more likely to offer a more nuanced, detailed discussion of a judge's performance. Usually those type of comments("This judge sucks because he/she ruled against me while any idiot would realize I should have won")reveals a certain youthful naivete and aggression, and lack of proportion.
That said, that is not to suggest we don't have some real substandard judges. One of them just blew the call on a matter of mine that any idiot knows I should have won on. What a travesty to the bench.
9:54 and 9:37.
Yes, judges can be awful, but I find that when I am dealing with really difficult, abusive co-counsel, who engages in hyper-aggressive tactics and constant ultra-aggressive and grossly unjustified demands, that it is such a relief when we finally get before a reasonable judge who straightens things out, and has a sense of proportionality and realism, and let's that super difficult attorney know what will fly and what won't.
So, I bitch about judges as well, but when I have one of these really awful runaway train attorneys I'm dealing with, I'm very grateful when judges reign them in.
I am happy when I go to arbitration, because the talent on the bench lacks.
A lot of the times the judges are worse than opposing counsel, which says something right there.
Things are so bad in this profession, I just don't even care anymore about other attorneys. I just do my best. Judges are awful. I don't care about them, either. Things are so science fiction weird that if I left career tomorrow and never I saw you miserable fucks again. I would be okay with that.
9:37
Sorry to see someone so negative. Maybe you right, or maybe it is just you. Maybe a switch in your career path?
Nice comment, 937. Maybe it's you?
I meant 942.
Is the legal profession so much worse than other professions? I would think the pay is much better than most other professions. Also, most attorneys do not experience layoffs like other industries. And if you do, you can find employment with another firm or go work for yourself. I believe that having a law license and doing everything to protect that license is a valuable skill asset that can provide great opportunities to support yourself. I know things can seem really bad out there, but everything is relative when compared to other situations.
9:42, call LCL. You need it.
I just blame the client or the judge and move on.
My first big loss in a bench trial was a case that we had advised the client we'd lose and he should settle – he didn't. So we gave it a go and after a week in the bench trial I was convinced we turned this dog into a winner. We lost. I took my paralegal and a colleague to a bar, got drunk and walked around the Vegas strip. I had a few losses since and don't take them hard if I know I did what I could do, including warning the client to ditch the case or settle. Now I approach it as a challenge. I've won some dogs I should have lost. Trial work is a bitch. Take it hard once, then get over it or get out of the game. That's my advice.
My first big trial loss was for a family member. We did everything we could and thought we had a solid shot. In fact, I fought like hell. As Sally Lohrer issued her decision. She looked me in the eye and said "Honestly, I just didn't believe a word your client said".
I side eyed my family member, he side eyed me, we walked out and he said to me "Well, that sucked." He paid my bill and we have never spoken of it again since.
I try to set expectations reasonably from the get-go so the client is aware of the weaknesses of their case. Some clients get offended when we have that talk, but I just tell them if they want to pay an attorney to blow sunshine at them, there are plenty out there who will. I tell them the dirt behind closed doors and then fight like hell in court, but I want the client to know ahead of time what is realistic to expect.
I have to agree with 9:37. By and large I really cannot stand my colleagues. Going to a bench-bar meeting is like nails on a chalk board. By and large we are a nasty bunch. There are obviously some exceptions, but that's my general feeling. And yes, I know it's me. I'm just as awful as the rest of you.
Our Father who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us,
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom and the power, and the glory,
forever and ever.
Amen.
Our Father who art in Calgary,
Bobsled be thy name,
Thy kingdom come,
Gold medals won,
On Earth as it is in turn 7,
With liberty and justice for Jamaica,
And Haile Selassie,
Amen
A great movie about winning the war, even as you don't come in first.
Amen
I've had 2 cases in my career where I walked into court knowing I should 100% win under the law, but the court went the other way. Both times the losses ate at me for months. Did I not explain the law good enough? Did I make the wrong tactical call by not going all out in responding to some obviously wrong argument by the other side? I don't know man.
When you win you win, when you lose you learn.
True dat. And my best friend, Jack Daniels, is always at my side for those difficult moments.
So I caught up with my pay Jack Daniels and his partner Jim Beam …
Just me and my pal Johnny Walker, and his brothers Black and Red…
When I have lost, I have noticed the truly great attorneys find ways to be magnanimous. "Wow, I was really worried about that [x] argument you made." I have also noticed that inferior attorneys/opposing counsel tend to complain to me when I win and they lose. "I can't believe Judge [X] bought into your terrible [x] argument. She obviously didn't read the briefs." I am often an asshole, but I strive to be like some of the better attorneys when it comes to wins and losses.
great approach
To quote a famous Nevada prosecutor: "All of those young whippersnappers, bragging about how they never lost a case. Anyone who has not lost a case has not tried too many of them!!!
So no horror stores about the Garth Brooks concert at Allegiant stadium? 65,000 to 72,000 seats and 2500 on site parking spaces. What could possibly go wrong?
Allegiant claims that there are 35,000 parking spaces within a mile of the stadium. Of course, it counts several Strip hotel parking lots which are not even affiliated with Allegiant. If it counts all of the Strip hotel parking lots, there must be 100,000 parking spots, none of which are promised to Allegiant stadium attendees, and most of which are miles from the stadium. The website for Allegiant says, "Getting there is part of the experience!" Boy, is it!
I have no interest in attending events at Allegiant Stadium. As a taxpayer, I am helping to indemnify those bonds. Has Mark Davis thanked us for that? Hardly. $750M in public funds for a stadium for an inferior franchise with a trash fanbase. Greatest scam ever. Now the A's see we're an easy mark and are trying to cash in too.
Please stop. The only time that you contribute to those bonds is when you have a staycation, in the form of room taxes. Every city in the country does this to woo the revenues from Professional Sports franchises. We will do it again when its time for the NBA or MLB to show up and its coming.
"We will do it again?" Who is "we" and who are you?
I speak for the entire Community. Get used to it.
8:28, if the room tax revenues are sufficient to cover the bonds. If they aren't these are general obligation bonds, meaning the county's general fund is committed to plugging any deficiency. And if there are insufficient funds in the general fund to cover the bond payments, then we're obligated to pay through higher property taxes. So what 3:59 said is correct.
And I'd like to point out that the December '20 and June '21 bond payments both drew from the reserve. May room tax revenue '21 was down 34% from May '19 revenue. There's $54 million left in the reserve, but the bond payments are around $16 mill each.
And you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think people are going to want to repeatedly go to the shitshow that is Allegiant Stadium parking. Locals aren't. Out of town Raiders fans won't. So no, the stadium won't pay for itself. Whether convention-goers and other tourists will pay for it remains to be seen. Instead of diversifying the city's economic base, we chose to triple down on tourism.
Gerry Spence– Stay undefeated by only trying cases you will win.
@4:00
Well, that is the philosophy of every prosecutorial office. Keep the numbers up.
I think the biggest part of dealing with loss is setting realistic expectations with the client. From my time on NV Disciplinary Board, other than fee disputes, the biggest bar complaints were from lawyers setting absurd expectations to hook the client and even if competent work was done, them not meeting said expectations.
Everyone has to understand that going to a judge is a risk, even if your case is better briefed, factually correct, and legally on the right side, that is by no means a guarantee of a favorable decision.
You can be the most persuasive down to Earth lawyer but you cannot control client expectations. You can write status upon status setting forth the risks of litigation; clients believe what they want to believe.
Only if your clients suck.
The biggest thing I have learned in my 22 years, is that if your are good at client control (management), even when you lose the client won't be mad at you. This involves setting boundaries, telling hard truths in an empathetic manner and not letting clients walk all over you. This can be done successfully without being a dick to your clients and having them hate you.
Of course, there is the rare exception and no one can avoid the malcontents 100% of the time.
My entire career has been devoted to telling clients how much their cases suck, so as to keep expectations in line.
Wins and losses depend on so many factors that you can't allow yourself to get too high or too low regardless of the outcome. Hopefully, you get paid for the effort and move on.
Yes!! Losing and getting stiffed is no fun at all.