- Quickdraw McLaw
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- County holds fact-finding review of deadly police shooting of Jorge Gomez. [8NewsNow]
- Las Vegas man who consumed marijuana before trip to UAE faces prison time there. [8NewsNow]
- Defense attorneys rush to stop execution of quadruple murderer. [RJ]
- What else is going on out there today?
Zane Floyd deserved the lethal injection–provided that it was imposed within a reasonable period of time.
A decade after the sentence was pronounced should have been more than sufficient time for any and all reasonable appeals to work their way through the system. There is no legitimate question in Floyd's case as to his identity as the killer(that is not in question), and thus it's not one of those case where subsequently available DNA, or something of that sort, could exonerate someone.
Perhaps there are legitimate mental health, or drug addiction issues, but those issues did not warrant the matter dragging on for a quarter century.
Once these matters drag on for far more than a decade after the death sentence is pronounced, the appeals become far less based on any problems with the actual case and its evidence, but it evolves more into generic policy arguments for or against the death penalty.
In this case, considering that this matter was in the late 90's, I think it would be really inappropriate to want to exact the pound of flesh at this time. If someone says well what about the families of the surviving victims needing some sense of justice and closure for their suffering, or what about society showing how it values life by exacting life in exchange for one who took lives, I cry foul.
If the criminal justice system really gave a shit about those concepts, they cannot demonstrate how much they value the lives of the victims by still not having executed the killer after almost 25 years. And if the system really gave a shit about the families of the victims, these people would have began to heal a lot better if they were forced to accept that the killer received a life without sentence, rather than the victims families being dangled a carrot of a bogus execution that never, ever takes place.
I understand and agree these case are of the utmost critical importance, that no stone must be unturned and that tragic mistakes can be made. But again, this case involves no legitimate DNA questions, or evidence that was destroyed, faulty, or recently discovered evidence, or problematic witness testimony, or anything which at this late date could materially change any result.
He went in armed to the teeth to shoot these people, and did so and that is uncontroverted. Again, if there are drug or psychological, or upbringing, issues which mitigate any of that, those arguments were available back then, have always been available, and it is a rank obscenity, and both sides are to blame, that we are almost 25 years into this.
I used to complain when these matters dragged on 12 or 14 years. But now, almost 25 years! It's absurd. I'm not suggesting that we should be as efficient as Florida or Texas when it comes to the implementation of the death penalty(they, and other select states, proceed far too fast in my view, which greatly compounds the chance of grievous error)but it completely boggles my mind that someone who no one denies committed the crime is still on death row for a crime from the 90's.
Both sides, plus the judiciary as well as legislatures, are to blame for this tortious, eternal process
He deserved to be executed, but no longer. It's an absurd system that would execute a middle-aged man for any crimes, no matter how horrific, committed while he was(or at least it appears he may have been) a drug-addled, mentally disturbed 22-year-old.
Out of basic fairness, I would now want to know to what extent he has reformed(if anyone could ever reform after something so horrific) what kind of inmate has he been, is he involved in projects which help others, is he seeking education, etc.
I ordinarily would not care much about any of that, but now that the system wants to execute a guy in his mid-40's for horrific crimes from his early 20's, basic decency and fairness makes me care about those questions and others.
10:05. I realize there may not be remaining DNA issues that could mitigate or exonerate Zane Floyd, but please keep the following in mind.
Some death row inmates have been exonerated by DNA evidence, which excludes them as the killer, as much as 20 or 25 years after the death sentence was pronounced.
Had they been executed more "efficiently" they would have been dead by the time they were cleared.
These cases, although not common, are now far from rare. And as you suggest, these death penalty matters are of the utmost critical importance and we must diligently guard against possible tragic error.
Now that all said, no easy answers here. I am not suggesting that those isolated DNA exoneration case serve as sole justification as to why most capitol cases take years and years to process, even the ones where the killer's identity is not in dispute.
But I just wanted to remind you that as science progresses, more and more people are being cleared–sometimes decades later.
And truth be told, a lot of these DNA exoneration case involve African American inmates, which is yet another issue worthy of significant discussion on some other thread
It's frightening that you think Florida and Texas are in the right re the death penalty. Study after study after study has proven the death penalty is applied disproportionately to POC and the entire system is rife with error. It should be abolished. Put them in jail for life and if the crime is that bad, life without parole. Look at the Steese case. Sucks that he lost some many years behind bars, but at least he was alive to finally be vindicated and set free. The only humane and decent answer is to abolish the death penalty entirely. It does not deter crime and it is too final.
10:32,Actually 10:05 specifically pointed out that the way it occurs in Florida and Texas should absolutely NOT be followed at it creates far more chance of error. That was very unambiguously stated, so actually reading, rather than merely skimming or glancing, is recommended.
Plus, as you suggest, it is disproportionately and unfairly applied in many instances in those states, as well as certain other states–also, for the most part, in the South.
Nope. The data is solid that POC's draw the death penalty at a higher rate because they commit atrocious crimes that cry for the death penalty at a higher rate.
@11:01 am- be careful, your cone hat is showing
It's well established that 49% of the homicides in this country are committed by African American men even though they only constitute 13% of the total population. Even if you assume the system is seriously biased against them and that a certain percentage are wrongfully convicted, that still means they commit homicides at a greater rate than other ethnic groups, which helps explain the death penalty disparity as well. The fact they commit more overall crime is a statistical fact. You can argue about the reasons for the fact but not the statistic.
10:32 here – my bad. I misread the comment re FL and TX. Thanks for pointing that out.
11:27 – black defendants are also the highest percentage of overturned murder convictions and they are also more likely to be innocent even though they've been convicted. So good job picking statistics that support your racist crap. All this information was found with a simple google search so you have no excuse. Can't argue with that.
Life without parole or death penalty?
Either way you lean, you have concluded that the felon cannot be readmitted to society and is without any redeeming societal value. Once you realize that, it is probably more humane to execute rather than keep the felon in a cage for life because you have some feeling of guilt or squeamishness.
Thanks Judge Smails. "I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them."
How about a Fresca?!
10:25–That reminds me of studies which suggest that polygraphs(despite being derided by many as quackery, voodoo, or whatever) are found to be more reliable than eye witness testimony.
According to at least one of these studies that I reviewed some time ago, there are African Americans who have been convicted based on situations like being seen for a split second at night by an elderly white woman with impaired vison, and who was under great mental stress. And then this same elderly woman, whose I.D. of the defendant was critical to the conviction, had stated elsewhere and earlier(such as in initial police interviews, etc.)
something like "It's real hard to tell because they all look the same to me."
I'm not arguing the reliability or viability of these studies, that's for you all to decide. But they are available for review
I am white, but the mere fact that such a disproportionate number of African Americans are sitting on death row provides ample evidence that the death penalty should be abolished.
Possibly, but for this statement to be true you would have to see how many black defendants got the death penalty vs white defendants after being convicted of the same crime. Otherwise, you just dont have the data you need and are not accounting for the most important variable. (Maybe white defendants are being charged differently as well, a lot of things to look into here.)
The reason that such a disproportionate number of African Americans are sitting on death row is because they commit a disproportionate number of 1st degree murders.
@10:59
That is most illogical thing I have heard today. I am to polite to say it is "stupid".
If you're black, you're more likely to get the death penalty than someone who is white, all else being equal. It's ok if it's illogical, it's just facts :/
https://apnews.com/article/discrimination-racial-injustice-united-states-archive-race-and-ethnicity-ded1f517a0fd64bf1d55c448a06acccc
Nobody in Nevada can that the death penalty is applied fairly if you remember Jeremy Strohmyer. Killed a black girl in the bathroom of a casino by strangling her. Middle class white guy-no death penalty.
That was done in negotiations, the State and Defense agreed to life without parole if he pleaded mid-trial
That deal would never have been offered to a black defendant charged with killing a white girl. The death penalty is imposed at a far lower rate when the victim is black because the victim is not valued.
OK 3Ls, exam time
https://www.takimag.com/article/minnesota-gats/
Discuss
too
I came around to the idea that there is racism in the military and local police department. Wow they have nothing on the Bar when it comes to racists in the State Bar. So much for an educated, enlightened group of people.
Really? After spending far too much time on this issue, I have reached the opposite conclusion. I believe it is tactic to keep us divided eternally over ethnicity, sexual preference, sex, background, income, and so on, so the oligarchs who are plundering the USA in broad daylight can keep doing so — because if we ever looked up from our petty differences, our collective rage would bring an end to the systemic exploitation. Funny that.
@ 1:59 PM — But, the barons in the balcony are laughing,
And pointing to the pit.
They say, "Aw look, they've grown accustomed to the smell.
Now, people love that shit.
We're workin' it!"
— Don Henley, Workin' It
It is sure nice the way people are able to make this blog about race on almost a daily basis.
For purely economic reasons the death penalty should be abolished. I think there are other reasons, but it is cheaper to keep someone alive in prison for life than execute them because of their right to counsel and other issues.
To consider 10:05's assertion that because this case has dragged on in the appellate courts for almost 25 years, the killer should no longer be executed, I have to wonder how much of that delay was caused by the Defendant's own actions. Appeals, petitions for writs, etc. I have never done a capital case, but I know that there are attorneys who devote themselves to filing any and every paper they can to obstruct and fight the death penalty.
10:05, are you saying that if a killer is successful not in overturning his conviction but in delaying and delaying, at some point he should be able to avoid the needle? I don't see this as legitimate.
2:58, I hear what you are saying, but each side is complicit with this, as well as the judiciary, the legislature, the media, civic groups, etc.
Obviously, in most of these case, it is presumed that the condemned is fighting the matter, as there are very few cases where the condemned ceases all appeals and demands, or resigns, to be put to death.
So, yes, obviously when matters drag on for decades the lawyers on behalf of the defendant is fighting the execution. That's a given.
But obviously courts are seeing some arguable merit in some of these proceedings and claims by Defendant's attorneys, or this matter would not be so eternally delayed.
Can't blame the whole thing on Defendant's side. Not by a long shot. If all his claims were dismissed summarily as being frivolous and without any possible merit, we would not be where we are at.
So, the fact that these cases have an incredible carbon half life cannot be placed squarely at the feet of just one side.
Don't you think it is problematic, or at least raises legitimate questions, such as inviting a discussion as to what type of person this person is at this point in his life before we execute a middle-aged man for a horrible crime committed as a probably drug-addled, mentally ill 22-year-old?
So I'm not suggesting it would be some gross miscarriage of justice for this execution to occur(multiple people were killed by him, and many families shattered) but with the passage of a quarter century, should we not stop long enough to reflect on all this, analyze we are at now, and deal with policy concerns that a death penalty system is quite broken if after more than two decades those sentenced are not yet put to death–all of which tortures the families of survivors, and keeps them in limbo, grave uncertainty, and prevents any sort of closure or healing(to the extent any real closure and healing can occur after something admittedly so senselessly horrific), etc.
When they interview families of victims, who are still waiting for execution dates after 20 years, and still being tortured by having the carrot dangled in front of them and then invariably pulled away at the last minute, listen to what they say.
They often say that if life without parole had been initially ordered, they would not have liked it initially, but would have realized the criminal matter is over and moved on to the best extent possible with the healing process. But they say they cannot heal when they are constantly sucked back in and constantly reminded of the case and that the Defendant is still not executed, and the matter still crops up in news coverage, etc.
Don't you see some problems with all this?
I laugh. We literally kill millions of innocents across the globe on a regular basis and here we are hand wringing over whether a death penalty that is never applied should be on the books. The world hates us for good reason.
5:10–Are you serious? Listen to yourself. Typical distorted approach of conflating two distinctly different things when someone does not wish to face or address a serious topic at hand.
Someone has a discussion about a specific topic wherein certain inequities or problems are identified within the system, and what, if anything, can and should be done to address those inequities.
And someone(in this case you, 5;10) responds to the topic by ignoring it, and instead climbing up on a soap box and saying who cares abut such topic, there are many people being killed by the military in foreign lands.
But, bad news for you, 5:10, by so dramatically, and so dismissively of others and their problems, you assume such moral high ground, you ironically lose such moral high ground.
You refuse to address ,or even discuss, a legitimate issue, wherein possible injustices are occurring, simply because something worse may be happening elsewhere in the world.
Do you honestly think you have provided a mature, thoughtful, moral response? You will ignore whether there are problems with the death penalty because our soldiers have killed enemy combatants in the Mid East?
Ignoring any polarized debate as to what extent we should have been involved in the Mid East, and acknowledging that the tragic death of innocent civilians occurred, what does one thing have to do with the other?
Please use the logic of an adult, not that of a self-righteous teenager.
Just think about the mentality and logic you are using, and apparently recommending.
For example, let's say you were to point out to me all the problems with our health care system, and the injustices it creates–lack of necessary coverage for critical procedures, etc. And let's say I respond to that by saying who cares about that as long as their are sweat shop factories in Panama that exploit their workers.
A bad thing does not become unworthy of discussion or correction merely because you identify a worse(but completely unrelated) bad thing that is occurring somewhere else in the world.
8:50-I see your point.
But I also see 5:10's point about why should we put an inordinate amount of focus on a death penalty that(except for a few hard core states) is very rarely issued as a sentence, and when it is we can often go two decades(and millions spent) and the sentence has still not been carried out.
All of which may be a good argument for eliminating he death penalty. But just as soon as I say that, I have to acknowledge that there are some arguments of reasonable merit as to why it should still be an option in the most horrific of cases.