Sean Claggett is one of the attorneys representing families of Ohio mass shooting victims suing a Henderson gun magazine maker. [Las Vegas Sun]
Judge Richard Boulware sets August 16 hearing to all for testimony on Nevada S.B. 248. [ACA International]
A Vegas real estate executive who was a guest lecturer teaching real estate law and ethics at UNLV was charged with securities fraud. [RJ]
Straight from the comments from yesterday’s post, “Nathan Costello suing the Estate of Scott Canepa claiming that Nate hooked Canepa up with a bunch of car wash investments. Nate gets diagnosed with Parkinsons. Nate alleges Canepa stole the idea of the car washes and pushed Nate out of the deal but still promised that he would send Nate money. However Scott dies and nothing gets paid to Nate. Nate always kind of seemed an outlier in the Vannah Costello set up but this does seems a little unfair. Case A-21-832457-B”
The problem with a lot of law schools is they charge almost as much as Harvard Law when their career opportunities are clearly not on the same planet as Harvard's. It's fine to not be Harvard, but a professional school's tuition should be commensurate with its career prospects.
The goal for 90% of law schools should be 1) to be decently affordable and 2) give their students a decent shot at a legal job in the local market. Too many law schools fail both.
For what it's worth, Boyd's tuition is less than half of Harvard's, which seems fair (I didn't go to Boyd).
Boyd used to be downright cheap. Like I think my tuition was like 6k a year. I understand that the great recession dried up some funding sources, forcing the school to raise tuition. I was actually really proud of Boyd because it did what you said – it game folks a chance at local employment without requiring them to go into serious debt. I feel really bad for people that go to school now. Tuition is many multiples of what it was in 2009.
Yeah, I got my first year free and then the next two for 7,500 at Boyd. Paid it off in full my first year working.
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Anonymous
August 4, 2021 6:20 pm
The debt associated with law school is simply not worth it. This job is soul crushing enough without the insane amount of debt.
Guest
Anonymous
August 4, 2021 6:46 pm
Eviction Ban
Hooray for the deadbeats. Of course they will still be evicted next month, or after the landlord's lender forecloses. There is no way that landlords will be able to recover the lost back rents for the past year and a half. Small landlords have drained their savings, large corporate entities have had to borrow.
Hooray, more work for me.
You're right, Fauci has no influence over the CDC, none whatsoever. Come on, of course he does, as well as the WHO. Thank goodness we're back to supporting those geniuses.
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Anonymous
August 4, 2021 7:09 pm
Law school, like most things in life, rewards those who are smart and practical. If you are smart about where you go, you can graduate with minimal debt. I graduated with about 50k in debt. Paid it off in a year. Went where I got a half scholarship, only borrowed to cover tuition, not living expenses. Many students live like lawyers in law school using borrowed money. That's fine, but don't complain when you have a large payment to make later on.
I always heard the saying that if you want to live like a lawyer during law school you'll live like a law student when you're a lawyer. I realize that's overly simplistic but the principle is true. Having said that, student loans not being dischargeable in BK is absolute hogwash.
Have to be honest that I think 12:29's evaluation is a bit harsh. However I would agree that law school does NOT reward those who are smart and practical; law school rewarded those who were supercilious sycophants. Life rewards those who are smart and practical. Those who take out $200,000 in student debt should do so knowing and calculating that they will have $200,000 in debt to repay. Those who take out $50,000 for a car loan should do so knowing and calculating that they will have $50,000 in debt to repay.
Many people (not just law students) go through life living like named partners at BigLaw; they need to be prepared that the bill for that will come. Many people struggle and scrape to get through law school and undertake large financing obligations with the hope (but not promise) that a career that will allow enough income to repay that debt on the other side will be there. If people were better informed on the way in that the road on the way out might be rocky and uncertain, they could at least trudge forward with knowledge.
@ 12:29
Harsh is too kind. 12:09 is correct, many borrow and spend student loan money on the newest iPhone, or spring breaks or for living. Dumb.
When I went to law school I had a little savings, a little help from family, a lot of help from my wife, a little grant money, worked part time, took summer session classes and… guess what? I came out with no debt whatsoever.
12:29, just so I'm clear, you are calling 12:09 a "complete asshole" because they essentially offer advice that law students should attempt to live within their financial means?
I get that some of the model offered by 12:09, may not be available to many, such as the partial scholarship option.
But some of the other aspects are completely within one's control, such as if someone is accepted by several law schools, there are consequences in choosing the far most expensive one merely on account of the school's purported reputation.
That is what I assume 12:09 meant when mentioning, among other considerations, "where you go" to law school.
So, although 12:09 appears a little rigid and judgmental, and seems to think their model should work for everyone, there is still a lot of practical sense to a lot of what 12:09 says.
So, 12:29, when you, without elaboration and without a discussion of the choices you made, simply dismiss 12:09 as a complete asshole, this may say a lot more about you than 12:09.
Did you make some really onerous and regrettable financial decisions? Are the observations of 12:09 hitting too close to home?
Law school rewards memorization, and writing really really fast. Law school rewards internalizing and reciting woke dogma from liberal professors who have little to no actual real world experience with practicing law. I say this as a former Republican who voted for both Clinton and Biden. I'm not a Trumper. If you think law school rewards pragmatism, you're nuts.
When I was in law school back during the Warren G. Harding Administration, I paid about $600.00 per semester for in-state tuition, I lived in a studio apartment that smelled like stale cigarettes even though I didn't smoke, and I ate lots of Ramen. I had some debt coming out but it was paid off within about two years. The problem is that we can't go around lecturing people about our personal Abe Lincoln stories because times have just changed too much. State schools are much less heavily subsidized, and you can't rent a place for $250-$300 per month like I did even if you are willing to live in a roach motel. The experience of 30-plus years ago just has no application to today, and coming out of school with a ton of debt doesn't necessarily mean that one is a spendthrift. Whether it's worth it or not is a different story.
3:09 Agreed. two decades ago my LS tuition was (adj for inflation) $9000. While my alma mater's tuition only went up 25% some of the other schools i looked at have doubled or tripled. These schools all charged comparable amounts at the time but are now $26k (Boyd), 27K (Arizona), 45k (Washington). One Private school I looked at was $25k ($38k AFI), but now charges $70k plus fees
There will always be excessive borrowers (like the guy who graduated from the state school 20 years ago with $150k in student loans)
I enjoy the practice of law, and being a lawyer (most days) but If I were making the decision to attend law school now, with the same options I had, I would likely make the other choice.
My rent was $650 (AFI)
12:29 here. I was referring to the smugness 12:09's comment reeked of. Not everyone with lots of debt lived large or borrowed irresponsibly. The legal job market changed significantly from the time I started law school and the time I graduated – and I know I'm not the only one who experienced that. There are also extenuating circumstances that lead to people incurring more debt than they thought they would need. Instead of bragging about their smart decisions and frugal living, 12:09 should maybe try to be a little more gracious. There but for the grace of God…
12:29– Then you did not read 12:09 very closely so lets break it down. "If you are smart about where you go, you can graduate with minimal debt." Well that statement is true (although I would substitute the word "less" for "minimal"). I had 3 college classmates. One went to Georgetown. One went to Minnesota. One went to Nebraska. 3 schools in 3 different tiers of the US News Ranking. The last one got into Georgetown also but did not want to take out the loans. They needless to say came out owing vastly different amounts of loans. There was disparity in their starting salaries at there firms also but not enough to cover the disparity in debt (especially because the GU grad went into public interest law). No one is berating the law student who plans wisely and lives frugally but who encounters economic hardship. But no one is an asshole for noting that those who live frugally and who plan ahead have an advantage over the profilgate spender.
12:29 here again. You did not read my comment very closely. I did not disagree with what OP said. I was commenting on the smug tone of their comment. BTW you sound like a complete asshole too.
I read it very closely. You state originally that you have objections to things the OP never stated. You then state that you do not object to what OP said but some unintelligible tone that no one else sees. " I was referring to the smugness 12:09's comment reeked of. Not everyone with lots of debt lived large or borrowed irresponsibly." Except OP did not say that. You made that up. Then you pepper your wittiness with name calling. There is a reason that your opinion is the outlier.
Way too much back and forth. It's getting confusing. So, I now need a score card to keep track of who the complete asshole is.
Is it 12:09? Is it 12;29? Or is any poster that does not agree 100% with everything we decide to post?
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Anonymous
August 4, 2021 9:17 pm
My parents paid for law school. I had no debt to repay. However, I did not live like a king while I was in law school, either. I was lucky and I know it. Thank heavens I never became a smug, self-entitled jerk like some of the lawyers who write on this blog.
Between college and law school I think my parents paid about half, I paid about 25% through summer and part-time jobs (which was doable back then) and I borrowed the other 25%. I could not have done it in a million years without them and I will be forever grateful, but it was by no means free to me either.
I remember, well, when I got home off my Mormon mission and I applied for financial aid. I had saved up for my mission, which I paid for myself. I barely had enough money left over to pay for a semester of school at a state university. The application required that I disclose my parents net worth. I knew this was a sensitive thing, but I had to ask. I'll never forget the shame in my Dad's voice when he paused and said, "ZERO." I never asked for financial help from my parents through college or law school. I did have opportunities that came along that allowed me to finish undergrad with no debt and a bit of money in the bank (that I wish I had been more responsible with, tbh). I financed my tuition for law school and my spouse supported us. Fast forward years later and my parents hard work has born fruit. They are quite well off and I am very happy for them. They were late bloomers financially, but they did bloom. And in the process my siblings and I racked up undergrad and grad degrees without financial assistance from them. It all worked out. When I think about whether I would finance my kids college, should I be fortunate enough to be able, I consider on the one hand my own experience, but also that the costs and wages have gone in two different directions. I will probably encourage them to do two years at CSN and then transfer to one of the state schools up in Utah.
6:56, good story. Hard call as to what to do for the kids. I had to work through undergrad and grad school, and I think it made me a better man, but I also wonder if a leg up would have helped or hurt? I have friends who are second and third generation wealth, and mom&dad's help allowed them to accelerate their personal growth and accumulation of wealth. And I also know of some who were completely and totally stunted by the generosity of mom&dad.
6:56 here. I have seen the same things. Some people get a head start on accumulating wealth with assistance from Mom or Dad. Nothing wrong with that although I roll my eyes when these people tell themselves and others the myth that they are self made. I had to work through undergrad and law school and even I recognize that I am not self made. There is no such thing. You do also see people who are armed by financial assistance from Mom or Dad. I think the most important thing is to teach kids how to work (my kids are a mixed bag on this so far) and not make excuses.
There is also the inevitable disruption of higher education. It's not a question of if, but when. Colleges and Universities are so financially inefficient. My kids are still young enough I recognize the possibility the system as we know it could be completely upended by the time they get there. I actually hope that happens because it would make college more accessible financially.
It's more important what you get your degree in than where you get it from. That's why, assuming things stay the same, I would want my kids to go to CSN for the first two years. They could work their way through school. Then transfer to a University and get a degree with economic value (like engineering, accounting or something like that).
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Anonymous
August 4, 2021 9:56 pm
I agree with 2:40 that some of what 2:09 says is valid.
As for 2;17, very interesting in that only on an anonymous blog does someone admit their parents paid for all of their college and law school.
I assume far more than half my colleagues had a lot of help from their parents(at least the colleagues who were the traditional students who went through at a relatively young age, without long interruptions in education to work and/or live life).
But no one really admits to this. In fact I know a couple colleagues who always discuss their early struggles, and how they did everything on their own, yet their long-term friends and acquaintances tell me that those two had a great deal of help from their parents.
I think the explanation is that most successful people like to tell of their early struggles to get established–sort of a rags to riches Horatio Alger arc.
An example is when a colleague tells us they started off in practice with a broom closet for an office, and three cases other attorneys threw them as a bone out of pity, and also because the cases were kind of shitty.
Then the attorney somehow turns those three shitty cases into a real pay day, through sheer determination, crushing hard work, and their indominable spirit.
Those stories are far more stirring, romantic, uplifting and inspiring, as well as far more flattering to the attorney recounting such stories, than an attorney merely saying he/she had the advantage of hitting the ground running as their parents paid their whole tuition freight, and they then got hired on by a firm for six figures once they passed the Bar exam.
Again, far more inspiring to tell that for five years, while we worked our way to greatness, we lived on those quick cook(super high-sodium) flavored noodles, while the cockroaches and rats nestled against us while we slept in our horrific, soon to be condemned, studio apartment in the worst part of town.
My parents paid for everything, college, law school, my car, trips abroad, the down payment on my first house. So what? I still worked hard and learned the trade. I never came off like a cocky dick.
All stories are different. Mine is that my parents gave me a ton of help (no vacations or trips abroad though). By the same token, I was also in the USMC reserve (enlisted), threw papers every friggin' morning at 5 AM (easy job and good money), and did some clerking during law school, quit my one and only fast food job after 30 days, and was a prep cook for little old Italian lady at her 10 table restaurant with a loyal following. Hopefully, I never came off as a cocky dick and treated every one with respect. Ok, maybe there was a couple of jackasses here and there that I was a prick to, but they deserved it.
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Anonymous
August 4, 2021 10:02 pm
2:56, yeah, and I know just such a colleague.
He always acts like his early career was such a horrific struggle and dreadfully onerous experience, but I happen to know his parents paid for his education, and he did get hired on right after the Bar Exam by a large, prestigious firm.
But, now that I think of, he was expected to be a 60 hour a week billing machine, and all the new associates were out to cut each other's throats.
So, on second thought, his early career was a horrific experience and a real awful struggle, despite him having no student loans to pay back.
Some people would rather be drawn and quartered than sacrificing their youth and early career to be a billing slave for one of those commercial or insurance defense firms.
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Anonymous
August 4, 2021 10:04 pm
3:02-you remind me of another issue, and that's the basic problem of PI practice.
Many Plaintiff's P.I. attorneys think that even their shitty cases are legitimate, and many insurance defense attorneys think even the legitimate P.I. cases are shitty.
ID FBU Here: I think the problem is more Plaintiff's attorneys thinking shitty cases are legitimate and failing to honestly and reasonably evaluate cases early, than ID attorneys thinking legitimate PI cases are shitty. Carriers want an honest eval not kool aid. I am sick and tired of plaintiff attorneys with shitty cases or even marginal cases causing my clients to spend a shit ton of money on cases before they evaluate the case in a reasonable fashion. Its not all plaintiff's attorneys and there are some that will reasonably evaluate cases early. However, it is the same attorneys and firms day in an day out. F you for being lazy, unprofessional, and unrealistic. Convince me otherwise and prove me wrong.
I agree with 5:45. I sometimes do some insurance cases when a bunch come in, and I can almost always reach an agreement with the other side. Occasionally the other side thinks a nothing injury is worth tens of millions of dollars, and then I'm forced to litigate a stupid ass case. Zero of those have netter the other side more than I would have been willing to offer on day one. Several have resulted in summary judgment in my favor and a lien on the plaintiff's property (which I hate to do but don't know what other options I have to get through to unhinged plaintiff's lawyers).
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Anonymous
August 4, 2021 10:50 pm
Quick story on shustek – during law school I worked there part time – it happened I needed medical procedure and no insurance – short story he gave me $16,000 for medical care – at least to me he was a Blessing and very caring person
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Anonymous
August 5, 2021 1:02 am
I'll never forget my first year at law school, me and the boys using our student loan $$ to jet down to Cancun/Cozumel on MLK Weekend for mucho R&R.
'Atta boy! I drank and fornicated like a rock star in law school. I knew it was my last three years of freedom, and I sucked the bone marrow out of it. No regrets.
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Anonymous
August 5, 2021 4:35 am
Babs Buckley's hard work at DETR means all longstanding appeals should be r3solved by eoty. Congrationals on a delay well done.
Obviously if you are asking who is Shustek you are new to Nevada and just got off the bus from Dusseldorf. Shustek was a controversial mortgage guy. Sounds like the feds just caught up with him.
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Anonymous
August 5, 2021 4:27 pm
WSJ Article and law school costs. I am curious what is the cost (tuition) at UNLV Boyd and what kind of debt are students graduating with today. What is typical. The debt spiral is very disheartening. University of Miami is a good law school but the Florida market is so over saturated with lawyers and many new law schools.
According to BSL's website, tuition for Nevada residents for 2021-2022 is $26,900 / year + $1,500 in fees. Out of staters are charged $10k more. Who the everloving hell would pay $37 grand for a year at Boyd is beyond me. Even assuming half-to-three-quarter scholarships, that's a pretty steep price. For Boyd.
I say this as someone who attended Boyd before JVW proclaimed the need to double tuition because other schools were increasing their tuition.
So, 3 years at half tuition for the upper third (the lower 2/3 get their scholarships revoked after the first year). You're looking at $65k in tuition for 2/3 of the class, minimum, going up to $75k for Nevadans with no scholarship, and up to $108k for out of staters who don't transfer residency at any point. Toss in poverty-level room and board of, say, $18,000 per year, sharing a sketchy apartment.
I can't recommend law school unless you get a scorching good scholarship.
UM is a private school as reflected in the $54,134 tuition. FL residents pay $21,804 in tuition at UF and $20,694 at FSU. Out of state residents pay double.
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Unknown
August 5, 2021 5:00 pm
Yea, I remember in law school I was drinking with my buddies commiserating about how much in debt we were going to be in after school. Most of us did not receive any help from our families. We did not live like kings and most of us had worked through our 2L and 3L years. So this other guy says "yea, I owe about $100K" and quietly adds I owe that to my parents.
The problem with a lot of law schools is they charge almost as much as Harvard Law when their career opportunities are clearly not on the same planet as Harvard's. It's fine to not be Harvard, but a professional school's tuition should be commensurate with its career prospects.
The goal for 90% of law schools should be 1) to be decently affordable and 2) give their students a decent shot at a legal job in the local market. Too many law schools fail both.
For what it's worth, Boyd's tuition is less than half of Harvard's, which seems fair (I didn't go to Boyd).
Boyd used to be downright cheap. Like I think my tuition was like 6k a year. I understand that the great recession dried up some funding sources, forcing the school to raise tuition. I was actually really proud of Boyd because it did what you said – it game folks a chance at local employment without requiring them to go into serious debt. I feel really bad for people that go to school now. Tuition is many multiples of what it was in 2009.
Yeah, I got my first year free and then the next two for 7,500 at Boyd. Paid it off in full my first year working.
The debt associated with law school is simply not worth it. This job is soul crushing enough without the insane amount of debt.
Eviction Ban
Hooray for the deadbeats. Of course they will still be evicted next month, or after the landlord's lender forecloses. There is no way that landlords will be able to recover the lost back rents for the past year and a half. Small landlords have drained their savings, large corporate entities have had to borrow.
Hooray, more work for me.
Exactly how does the CDC have any authority whatsoever, to enforce a moratorium? I mean like WTF is going on here? It makes no sense.
Looks like Fauci decides our fate on freedom, property rights, and whatever else is around the corner. Fun stuff.
3:48,
Fauci isn't part of the CDC.
4:22 How dare you get hung up on facts when the torches are already lit and we managed to actually find pitchforks in this day and age.
You're right, Fauci has no influence over the CDC, none whatsoever. Come on, of course he does, as well as the WHO. Thank goodness we're back to supporting those geniuses.
Law school, like most things in life, rewards those who are smart and practical. If you are smart about where you go, you can graduate with minimal debt. I graduated with about 50k in debt. Paid it off in a year. Went where I got a half scholarship, only borrowed to cover tuition, not living expenses. Many students live like lawyers in law school using borrowed money. That's fine, but don't complain when you have a large payment to make later on.
jfc you sound like a complete asshole
I always heard the saying that if you want to live like a lawyer during law school you'll live like a law student when you're a lawyer. I realize that's overly simplistic but the principle is true. Having said that, student loans not being dischargeable in BK is absolute hogwash.
Have to be honest that I think 12:29's evaluation is a bit harsh. However I would agree that law school does NOT reward those who are smart and practical; law school rewarded those who were supercilious sycophants. Life rewards those who are smart and practical. Those who take out $200,000 in student debt should do so knowing and calculating that they will have $200,000 in debt to repay. Those who take out $50,000 for a car loan should do so knowing and calculating that they will have $50,000 in debt to repay.
Many people (not just law students) go through life living like named partners at BigLaw; they need to be prepared that the bill for that will come. Many people struggle and scrape to get through law school and undertake large financing obligations with the hope (but not promise) that a career that will allow enough income to repay that debt on the other side will be there. If people were better informed on the way in that the road on the way out might be rocky and uncertain, they could at least trudge forward with knowledge.
@ 12:29
Harsh is too kind. 12:09 is correct, many borrow and spend student loan money on the newest iPhone, or spring breaks or for living. Dumb.
When I went to law school I had a little savings, a little help from family, a lot of help from my wife, a little grant money, worked part time, took summer session classes and… guess what? I came out with no debt whatsoever.
12:29, just so I'm clear, you are calling 12:09 a "complete asshole" because they essentially offer advice that law students should attempt to live within their financial means?
I get that some of the model offered by 12:09, may not be available to many, such as the partial scholarship option.
But some of the other aspects are completely within one's control, such as if someone is accepted by several law schools, there are consequences in choosing the far most expensive one merely on account of the school's purported reputation.
That is what I assume 12:09 meant when mentioning, among other considerations, "where you go" to law school.
So, although 12:09 appears a little rigid and judgmental, and seems to think their model should work for everyone, there is still a lot of practical sense to a lot of what 12:09 says.
So, 12:29, when you, without elaboration and without a discussion of the choices you made, simply dismiss 12:09 as a complete asshole, this may say a lot more about you than 12:09.
Did you make some really onerous and regrettable financial decisions? Are the observations of 12:09 hitting too close to home?
Law school rewards memorization, and writing really really fast. Law school rewards internalizing and reciting woke dogma from liberal professors who have little to no actual real world experience with practicing law. I say this as a former Republican who voted for both Clinton and Biden. I'm not a Trumper. If you think law school rewards pragmatism, you're nuts.
When I was in law school back during the Warren G. Harding Administration, I paid about $600.00 per semester for in-state tuition, I lived in a studio apartment that smelled like stale cigarettes even though I didn't smoke, and I ate lots of Ramen. I had some debt coming out but it was paid off within about two years. The problem is that we can't go around lecturing people about our personal Abe Lincoln stories because times have just changed too much. State schools are much less heavily subsidized, and you can't rent a place for $250-$300 per month like I did even if you are willing to live in a roach motel. The experience of 30-plus years ago just has no application to today, and coming out of school with a ton of debt doesn't necessarily mean that one is a spendthrift. Whether it's worth it or not is a different story.
3:09 Agreed. two decades ago my LS tuition was (adj for inflation) $9000. While my alma mater's tuition only went up 25% some of the other schools i looked at have doubled or tripled. These schools all charged comparable amounts at the time but are now $26k (Boyd), 27K (Arizona), 45k (Washington). One Private school I looked at was $25k ($38k AFI), but now charges $70k plus fees
There will always be excessive borrowers (like the guy who graduated from the state school 20 years ago with $150k in student loans)
I enjoy the practice of law, and being a lawyer (most days) but If I were making the decision to attend law school now, with the same options I had, I would likely make the other choice.
My rent was $650 (AFI)
12:29 here. I was referring to the smugness 12:09's comment reeked of. Not everyone with lots of debt lived large or borrowed irresponsibly. The legal job market changed significantly from the time I started law school and the time I graduated – and I know I'm not the only one who experienced that. There are also extenuating circumstances that lead to people incurring more debt than they thought they would need. Instead of bragging about their smart decisions and frugal living, 12:09 should maybe try to be a little more gracious. There but for the grace of God…
12:29– Then you did not read 12:09 very closely so lets break it down. "If you are smart about where you go, you can graduate with minimal debt." Well that statement is true (although I would substitute the word "less" for "minimal"). I had 3 college classmates. One went to Georgetown. One went to Minnesota. One went to Nebraska. 3 schools in 3 different tiers of the US News Ranking. The last one got into Georgetown also but did not want to take out the loans. They needless to say came out owing vastly different amounts of loans. There was disparity in their starting salaries at there firms also but not enough to cover the disparity in debt (especially because the GU grad went into public interest law). No one is berating the law student who plans wisely and lives frugally but who encounters economic hardship. But no one is an asshole for noting that those who live frugally and who plan ahead have an advantage over the profilgate spender.
12:29 here again. You did not read my comment very closely. I did not disagree with what OP said. I was commenting on the smug tone of their comment. BTW you sound like a complete asshole too.
I read it very closely. You state originally that you have objections to things the OP never stated. You then state that you do not object to what OP said but some unintelligible tone that no one else sees. " I was referring to the smugness 12:09's comment reeked of. Not everyone with lots of debt lived large or borrowed irresponsibly." Except OP did not say that. You made that up. Then you pepper your wittiness with name calling. There is a reason that your opinion is the outlier.
Way too much back and forth. It's getting confusing. So, I now need a score card to keep track of who the complete asshole is.
Is it 12:09? Is it 12;29? Or is any poster that does not agree 100% with everything we decide to post?
My parents paid for law school. I had no debt to repay. However, I did not live like a king while I was in law school, either. I was lucky and I know it. Thank heavens I never became a smug, self-entitled jerk like some of the lawyers who write on this blog.
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Between college and law school I think my parents paid about half, I paid about 25% through summer and part-time jobs (which was doable back then) and I borrowed the other 25%. I could not have done it in a million years without them and I will be forever grateful, but it was by no means free to me either.
I remember, well, when I got home off my Mormon mission and I applied for financial aid. I had saved up for my mission, which I paid for myself. I barely had enough money left over to pay for a semester of school at a state university. The application required that I disclose my parents net worth. I knew this was a sensitive thing, but I had to ask. I'll never forget the shame in my Dad's voice when he paused and said, "ZERO." I never asked for financial help from my parents through college or law school. I did have opportunities that came along that allowed me to finish undergrad with no debt and a bit of money in the bank (that I wish I had been more responsible with, tbh). I financed my tuition for law school and my spouse supported us. Fast forward years later and my parents hard work has born fruit. They are quite well off and I am very happy for them. They were late bloomers financially, but they did bloom. And in the process my siblings and I racked up undergrad and grad degrees without financial assistance from them. It all worked out. When I think about whether I would finance my kids college, should I be fortunate enough to be able, I consider on the one hand my own experience, but also that the costs and wages have gone in two different directions. I will probably encourage them to do two years at CSN and then transfer to one of the state schools up in Utah.
6:56, good story. Hard call as to what to do for the kids. I had to work through undergrad and grad school, and I think it made me a better man, but I also wonder if a leg up would have helped or hurt? I have friends who are second and third generation wealth, and mom&dad's help allowed them to accelerate their personal growth and accumulation of wealth. And I also know of some who were completely and totally stunted by the generosity of mom&dad.
8:04 AM,
6:56 here. I have seen the same things. Some people get a head start on accumulating wealth with assistance from Mom or Dad. Nothing wrong with that although I roll my eyes when these people tell themselves and others the myth that they are self made. I had to work through undergrad and law school and even I recognize that I am not self made. There is no such thing. You do also see people who are armed by financial assistance from Mom or Dad. I think the most important thing is to teach kids how to work (my kids are a mixed bag on this so far) and not make excuses.
There is also the inevitable disruption of higher education. It's not a question of if, but when. Colleges and Universities are so financially inefficient. My kids are still young enough I recognize the possibility the system as we know it could be completely upended by the time they get there. I actually hope that happens because it would make college more accessible financially.
It's more important what you get your degree in than where you get it from. That's why, assuming things stay the same, I would want my kids to go to CSN for the first two years. They could work their way through school. Then transfer to a University and get a degree with economic value (like engineering, accounting or something like that).
I agree with 2:40 that some of what 2:09 says is valid.
As for 2;17, very interesting in that only on an anonymous blog does someone admit their parents paid for all of their college and law school.
I assume far more than half my colleagues had a lot of help from their parents(at least the colleagues who were the traditional students who went through at a relatively young age, without long interruptions in education to work and/or live life).
But no one really admits to this. In fact I know a couple colleagues who always discuss their early struggles, and how they did everything on their own, yet their long-term friends and acquaintances tell me that those two had a great deal of help from their parents.
I think the explanation is that most successful people like to tell of their early struggles to get established–sort of a rags to riches Horatio Alger arc.
An example is when a colleague tells us they started off in practice with a broom closet for an office, and three cases other attorneys threw them as a bone out of pity, and also because the cases were kind of shitty.
Then the attorney somehow turns those three shitty cases into a real pay day, through sheer determination, crushing hard work, and their indominable spirit.
Those stories are far more stirring, romantic, uplifting and inspiring, as well as far more flattering to the attorney recounting such stories, than an attorney merely saying he/she had the advantage of hitting the ground running as their parents paid their whole tuition freight, and they then got hired on by a firm for six figures once they passed the Bar exam.
Again, far more inspiring to tell that for five years, while we worked our way to greatness, we lived on those quick cook(super high-sodium) flavored noodles, while the cockroaches and rats nestled against us while we slept in our horrific, soon to be condemned, studio apartment in the worst part of town.
My parents paid for everything, college, law school, my car, trips abroad, the down payment on my first house. So what? I still worked hard and learned the trade. I never came off like a cocky dick.
All stories are different. Mine is that my parents gave me a ton of help (no vacations or trips abroad though). By the same token, I was also in the USMC reserve (enlisted), threw papers every friggin' morning at 5 AM (easy job and good money), and did some clerking during law school, quit my one and only fast food job after 30 days, and was a prep cook for little old Italian lady at her 10 table restaurant with a loyal following. Hopefully, I never came off as a cocky dick and treated every one with respect. Ok, maybe there was a couple of jackasses here and there that I was a prick to, but they deserved it.
2:56, yeah, and I know just such a colleague.
He always acts like his early career was such a horrific struggle and dreadfully onerous experience, but I happen to know his parents paid for his education, and he did get hired on right after the Bar Exam by a large, prestigious firm.
But, now that I think of, he was expected to be a 60 hour a week billing machine, and all the new associates were out to cut each other's throats.
So, on second thought, his early career was a horrific experience and a real awful struggle, despite him having no student loans to pay back.
Some people would rather be drawn and quartered than sacrificing their youth and early career to be a billing slave for one of those commercial or insurance defense firms.
3:02-you remind me of another issue, and that's the basic problem of PI practice.
Many Plaintiff's P.I. attorneys think that even their shitty cases are legitimate, and many insurance defense attorneys think even the legitimate P.I. cases are shitty.
ID FBU Here: I think the problem is more Plaintiff's attorneys thinking shitty cases are legitimate and failing to honestly and reasonably evaluate cases early, than ID attorneys thinking legitimate PI cases are shitty. Carriers want an honest eval not kool aid. I am sick and tired of plaintiff attorneys with shitty cases or even marginal cases causing my clients to spend a shit ton of money on cases before they evaluate the case in a reasonable fashion. Its not all plaintiff's attorneys and there are some that will reasonably evaluate cases early. However, it is the same attorneys and firms day in an day out. F you for being lazy, unprofessional, and unrealistic. Convince me otherwise and prove me wrong.
I agree with 5:45. I sometimes do some insurance cases when a bunch come in, and I can almost always reach an agreement with the other side. Occasionally the other side thinks a nothing injury is worth tens of millions of dollars, and then I'm forced to litigate a stupid ass case. Zero of those have netter the other side more than I would have been willing to offer on day one. Several have resulted in summary judgment in my favor and a lien on the plaintiff's property (which I hate to do but don't know what other options I have to get through to unhinged plaintiff's lawyers).
Quick story on shustek – during law school I worked there part time – it happened I needed medical procedure and no insurance – short story he gave me $16,000 for medical care – at least to me he was a Blessing and very caring person
I'll never forget my first year at law school, me and the boys using our student loan $$ to jet down to Cancun/Cozumel on MLK Weekend for mucho R&R.
'Atta boy! I drank and fornicated like a rock star in law school. I knew it was my last three years of freedom, and I sucked the bone marrow out of it. No regrets.
Babs Buckley's hard work at DETR means all longstanding appeals should be r3solved by eoty. Congrationals on a delay well done.
Congratulation
Who is "shustek"?
Obviously if you are asking who is Shustek you are new to Nevada and just got off the bus from Dusseldorf. Shustek was a controversial mortgage guy. Sounds like the feds just caught up with him.
WSJ Article and law school costs. I am curious what is the cost (tuition) at UNLV Boyd and what kind of debt are students graduating with today. What is typical. The debt spiral is very disheartening. University of Miami is a good law school but the Florida market is so over saturated with lawyers and many new law schools.
According to BSL's website, tuition for Nevada residents for 2021-2022 is $26,900 / year + $1,500 in fees. Out of staters are charged $10k more. Who the everloving hell would pay $37 grand for a year at Boyd is beyond me. Even assuming half-to-three-quarter scholarships, that's a pretty steep price. For Boyd.
I say this as someone who attended Boyd before JVW proclaimed the need to double tuition because other schools were increasing their tuition.
So, 3 years at half tuition for the upper third (the lower 2/3 get their scholarships revoked after the first year). You're looking at $65k in tuition for 2/3 of the class, minimum, going up to $75k for Nevadans with no scholarship, and up to $108k for out of staters who don't transfer residency at any point. Toss in poverty-level room and board of, say, $18,000 per year, sharing a sketchy apartment.
I can't recommend law school unless you get a scorching good scholarship.
UM is a private school as reflected in the $54,134 tuition. FL residents pay $21,804 in tuition at UF and $20,694 at FSU. Out of state residents pay double.
Yea, I remember in law school I was drinking with my buddies commiserating about how much in debt we were going to be in after school. Most of us did not receive any help from our families. We did not live like kings and most of us had worked through our 2L and 3L years. So this other guy says "yea, I owe about $100K" and quietly adds I owe that to my parents.