- Quickdraw McLaw
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Today one of our readers is looking for your advice on socializing at work. Should you be friends with your coworkers? Can attorneys only socialize with the other attorneys in your firm? Is it okay for attorneys to hang out with the staff on the weekend? And as a bonus, for those of you who solo practitioners, what do you do to socialize?
Received another "Veterans In Politics International" (VIPI) screed in the middle of the night. VIPI is sort of like the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an empire. Similarly, Veterans in Politics International, does not actually advance any real veterans issues, isn't really political (in terms of public policy) and can't really claim to be legitimately international.
In other words … boring
Yawn..let us talk about getting Baby Johnson to replace Cherry on the Supremes.
Are you mocking me, boy ?
I stick by a strict no-socializing outside of work policy, which includes firm parties and events. It's not that I don't like the people I work with, I just find it makes my life infinitely simpler.
Agreed.
Bravo! I thought I was the only one. Every December nothing fills my heart with more holiday spirit than RSVPing "yes" for the Christmas party and not showing up.
I work for Lewis and Roca, and the attorneys frat with assistants all the time, poking the camel.
Anything wrong with me banging my associate or my runner?
Hot female attorneys should not only socialize with the support staff, they should sleep with them as part of the benefits package.
Savage^^^^^^^^
Why condemn the support staff to a life of celibacy?
I need to refer a client to a patent attorney in Las Vegas. Would appreciate any referrals. Thanks.
What type of patent attorney? They practice in different "arts" (e.g. chemical, electrical, software, etc.).
I've been referring to Seaton at Howard & Howard here in Las Vegas for 6-7 years and never had a complaint come back from the the person referred. (and I'm a former patent attorney.)
It's a consumer product (some type of game, but not software). Thanks!
Wilson Sonsini in Silicon Valley. I appreciate patent lawyers locally but would go to patent hubs.
I think its important to socialize at work, mainly with the other attorneys. A lot of life in a firm, beyond whether you do good work (which is a must), is whether you are likable. We all have to spend time together, must more than we typically spend with our families, so you'd better be likable. In fact, our recruiting largely comes down to who is a good fit for the office — i.e., who is cool. If you've gotten a call-back interview, you've already got the grades/experience, now we just need to see if you are a human.
Al Marquis, is that you???
No, it is Alversom.
So, Jerry "Hands" Espenson need not apply. Gotcha.
Al Marquis or not, some logic in that post. You can be a great attorney, but if you can't get along with others….stay home.
Guess it's generally okay for attorneys to socialize with co-workers, including support staff, so long as boundaries are not blurred to the point where a subordinate worker now believes he/she can work less hard, have less accountability, expect preferential treatment, etc.
But, in general, a bigger potential problem than attorneys socializing with co-workers is the question of judges, and judicial staff, socializing with attorneys. That situation creates all sorts of challenges, and often results in serious problems arising.
I was in Court a few years back, still a fairly new attorney, on a big hearing that was certain to go our way. We got up to make our appearances and the judge started joking around with opposing counsel. He then turned to me and said, "I should disclose to you that Mr. ____ and I go back quite a few years. We often go out to bars together and he's been to several BBQ's at my house. I still believe I can be impartial in this case, but if you feel uncomfortable with that you can ask that I recuse myself."
Being new and not having my "court legs" under me I didn't feel confident enough to ask him to recuse himself. I should have, because the judge then ruled in his favor on every issue possible. I learned quickly never to give a judge the benefit of the doubt.
Wow! That's really a great anecdote, and a cautionary tale for young attorneys. These days it's rare that a judge would disclose a personal friendship on the record like that. If disclosed, it would be off the record, and then they would go back on the record to represent that a potential conflict was discussed but that it is waived, or whatever be the case.
It's clear that such personal relationship between the judge and attorney was very close and was currently occurring("we often go to bars together") as opposed to a friendship from the past. The judge should have listed the attorney on an ongoing recusal status as to the department.
If something similar arises for anyone reading this, and your client is present at the hearing, a good approach would be to indicate that during the break you discussed the matter fully with your client, and although you as the attorney hold the court's impartiality beyond reproach, that your client, being a lay person unskilled in such matters and without an inherent trust in the legal process, feels more comfortable if the judge recuses. So, make it clear that you are comfortable with the judge, but based on your client's concerns, and to avoid the appearance of conflict or implied bias, a recusal is requested.
I hope that judge is no longer on the bench. Sounds like he was in the tank for his friend. And even if he wasn't, the friendship sounds so incredibly close that the judge should have voluntarily recused from all cases involving his drinking buddy. We cannot expect a litigant to believe they would get a fair shake if the judge is waxing extensively about how he and opposing counsel spend most of their free time drinking and barbecuing together. Outrageous.
As recently as the late 1990's, attorneys of a certain Utah-based religion enjoyed a huge advantage in Nevada courts. The advantage is not as prevalent now. Now it is far more about how much money was given to the judge's campaign.
I try to wear undershirts to court in case that's the secret handshake and I'll get the benefit without having to convert.
Gonna have to call BS on this. I have never seen a judge admit to "going to bars" with counsel.
Why can't judges and attorneys be friends. Judges were attorneys before they put on a robe. If they are dear friends, then they should be on recusal list. I have gone and had beers with certain judges and it has never helped my case. My checks seem to help more.
@7:35 – I really have a lot to gain by posting a fake story about my past court experience from years ago. I'd go back and get the transcript, but to be honest, I don't care if you believe it or not.
@5:17 PM – That's definitely what I should have done, although my client was not present for the hearing and I was so inexperienced in court I felt like a deer in the headlights. After 10 years of court experience I'd be much more comfortable in that situation. And just so you know, the judge is still on the bench.
@ 5:17- I hope that (and am glad to hear) that the Judge is still on the bench. That Judge handled it correctly by disclosing. I don't fear what I didn't know; I fear what I don't know that I don't know. It is the secret relationships, church functions, backroom telephone calls and lunches that the public fears. This judge was transparent which I find very few judges are.
Apparently Lionel Sawyer's website is still operating and showing all of its former attorneys as "current" attorneys. What's up with that? Paid through the end of the year?
Feeling nostalgic? 15 days until you can buy the domain.
lionelsawyer.com
DOMAIN INFORMATION
Domain:lionelsawyer.com
Registrar:Network Solutions, LLC.
Registration Date:1997-09-22
Expiration Date:2017-09-21
I was so bummed they didn't come to OCI my year.