- Quickdraw McLaw
- Job Tips
- 30 Comments
- 412 Views
Since there has been some ongoing discussion about rates in the comments, we thought we would dedicate a post to the topic. How do you set your hourly billing rate? Does it vary from client to client? By practice area? Do you change your rates with any frequency or have you hit your maximum rate? What do you do to determine what your rate should be? Do you think your rate is competitive?
On a related note, Dylan Ciciliano is conducting an anonymous survey regarding 2023 billing rates. His primary focus is on attorneys practicing business law in Nevada, but the survey accounts for many practice areas (sorry government lawyers, you’ll have to sit this one out). The results will be shared at the Fourth Quarter Meeting of the Business Court Bench Bar meeting on December 7, 2023. You can access the two-minute anonymous survey here.
Blog is dead. lets go back to talking about Steve D getting sued for allowing sexual harassment to exists in his workplace.
I am shocked that sexual harassment could occur at that office.
Although his claim suggests it was welcomed advances.
Is there a case number?
Guess I'm clueless, but who is Steve D?
Going out on a limb, but I think Steve D might be in reference to the Legal Elite ™
Verrrry interesting complaint. And surprise, surprise, disgusting behavior by Steve and staff.
CASE NO:A-23-879153-C
Who are the parties in this case?
Law firm employees/owner and employee of an affiliated house flipping entity.
The blawg's audience is hilarious.
Commenters: We're talking about billing rates in a post that's only tangentially related.
Law.dawg: Okay, I'll make a separate post about billing rates.
Commenters: naw fam, we good. We're talking about sexual harassment suits now under the post about billing.
Based ! !
I am far too old to use "Based" in response to anything. I prefer the classics "True dat", "4 sho", and "Indubitably".
And here I am thinking Based was some boomer lingo.
5:09
Bruh. You're giving the mid rn. Like, big yikes. Boomers are lowkey sus with vibe but no cap, you don't drag their language. You just need to take several seats.
THWAAAAKKK!
Well I hope more people are doing the survey than are talking about rates. I"m definitely interested to see what the results are.
I will share the results of the survey. We only have 37 responses so far and would very much encourage people to share the survey so we can have robust results.
This is a really interesting topic because I had a 45+ year opposing counsel call me up to say that my rates were too low after getting my Brunzell affidavit (he did not take that position in opposing my motion but I appreciated the call nonetheless). So I raised my rates. Clients kept coming. So I raised my rates again. Clients kept coming. So I raised my rates again. Clients kept coming. I am no economist so maybe this is just inflation but I am not certain where the ceiling ultimately is.
Sometimes the higher the price, the higher the demand, because people assume that high prices equal high quality. You might be running into that. Or your rates might've just been way too low.
TFW when you quote an astronomical rate to a prospective new client and a huge retainer in order to politely send them packing and they are writing the check before you can finish speaking.
I am my own worse enemy. My wife had to threaten divorce for me to raise my rates. Is it lack of self esteem? I am now making 30% more with no additional hours. Could I make it 50% more?
That was good of him to call you. Moments of camaraderie like that are great.
Remember – if you double your rates, and lose half your clients, you're still making the same amount of money.
An attorney's hourly rate is a myopic focus, if we ignore factors which are far more important. Having reviewed thousands of billing statements, in my various capacities over the decades, the following considerations are far more important than the mere question of hourly rate:
1. Hourly rate seldom has any real connection to an attorney's ability and skill, so clients need to research well before selecting, and not just assume a high rate equates to a high quality product.
2. Similar to #1, multiple attorneys charging the same rate are rarely equal in quality, or even close to it.
3. A sickening dynamic, and far more common than many imagine, but usually extremely difficult to prove, is attorneys who pad the bill and charge far more than a project took. We can look at it and say it definitely should not have taken that long, but proving that the attorney was dishonest, and lied about how long it took, seldom occurs as far as I know.
4. Cases where the attorney presumably did spend the time billed, but it was largely pointless, or at least overkill. An example is inordinate charges for legal research in cases where the operative law is straight forward and settled, and the case is largely factually driven. A prime example, and I've seen this patent absurdity on multiple occasions, is an attorney is retained
for a standard child custody dispute. The attorney charges hours for legal research, and produces a memo for the client, discussing statutes and case authority, and concludes that the operative concept is the court determining the "best interest" of the child.
In that last example, the mere existence of such charges is what the issue is. The hourly amount of the charges is not the main focus, but may well add to how outrageous the situation is.
4:57 is a judge.
Or claims auditor for an insurance company.
Could be a judge or a claims auditor, or a partner in an insurance defense firm who reviews all the billings, but I think more likely they are someone who has served for years on the Fee Dispute Committee, or someone who has served in some mediation/arbitration role which includes attorney fees disputes.
As for#3(false charges and bill padding) of 4:57's post, that, very unfortunately, is something a handful of attorneys are guilty of, but awfully difficult to prove, I presume.
One thing a Fee Dispute Committee can take action on, which was not mentioned by 4:57, is if you bill for multiple employees who are essentially performing the same task. Your contract can authorize billing for multiple people(attorneys, paralegals, etc.) but the tasks need to be different and not duplicative.
#4, pointless research, does occur, but I imagine it can be difficult to effectively challenge as there is so much subjectivity involved in much of this. In certain instances, my view of worthless and/or cumulative research will vary greatly from someone' else's view. Attorneys who accept a case in an area they don't have much experience in may well conduct research that specialists in that area might find to be un-necessary.
I bill one hour per page for motion practice. Writing, researching, revising and filing all inclusive. Period. It often takes me longer for complex practice issues, and often a little less for regular practice.
8:48,
I do something similar. Generally, I am at a point where I can bang out a page of motion practice at .7 per page. However, sometimes it's more, sometimes its less. When the attorneys I supervise bill more than 1.3 or 1.4 hours per page, we sit down and talk about why. Sometimes, it's a more involved pleading. In those cases, I am fine with it and that's how we bill the client. But if I feel it was done inefficently, I cut the time down to a rate that I think matches the difficulting of the pleading. I also don't expect associates to draft as efficiently as I do. That's why I charge more per hour.
That is exactly the practice I learned in the late 90s and I still do it this way today. Glad to not be alone in common sense billing.