- Quickdraw McLaw
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What is the best thing about where you work? If you’re at a firm, what is that they’re doing that makes you happy to be there or makes you excited to come into the office. If you’re a solo, what is the thing you do that makes it so much better. Is it the perks, is the parking, is it the view, the culture, the pay?
In-house. It's the best.No billables. Much higher morale. Company cares about its employees – perks, good benefits, real bonuses. Way better pay than ID.
But honestly, the BEST thing? It's a good fit for me. I enjoy my coworkers, I enjoy (generally) the work I do, my boss is good, and the culture works for me. I can't say all that about anywhere else I've worked.
Solo.
Keep it small, keep it all.
I am a partner in a small office. Through careful hiring, we have a drama free work environment. My schedule is completely flexible. I'm probably gonna run home at lunch for a nooner.
Best thing about being a solo. . . . . . nooners, while the kids are at school.
9:49 here. Very decent of you, 9:54.
Why are nooners reserved only for solos? Even us office folk get a lunch break.
Some people hire carefully so they don't have to leave the office for a nooner.
That you Doug Crawford? Posting from your "fine dining" at Fleming's tonight?
a9:42 AM–In house the best? Sorry but disagreement here. In house for insurance company (did that twice) no limit on workload (80 files sometimes) and insurance company thinks they "boxing robot" and a free lawyer to bash plaintiffs. If you tell them they should settle case to protect client and themselves, this puts you in a difficult situation. Some in house or staff counsel for insurance companies have to bill on files and have strict rules (like can't bill for this and that). In house for a large corporation, did that for a Fortune 500 company. Not the best situation because you are a "captive counsel" to the company. Management does not want to hear no and only wants to hear yes. They put restrictions on when you can retain outside counsel to help with special problems. They have no appreciation for lawyers and legal issues. Example: They have been in negotiations with another large corporation for months and expect you to review a 100 page contract on a day's notice. You wind up burning the midnight oil for their emergencies. Day to day the challenge is to get matters off your desk and move problems along. Then if there is litigation or something goes south it is always the lawyer's fault.
I think that 942 is not In house for an Insurance co. I have always referred to them as "captive counsel" whereas, IMO, In house means for a company. I am in house for a large Construction and I love it.
In House Counsel: the CEO wants to fuck around, and your job is to tell him how he can avoid finding out. Also, Sales Division needs to revamp all 150 of their upcoming contracts by Friday EOB. Yes, this is the first time you're hearing about it. No, they did not request your input before deciding this is what needed to be done. By the way, the bills for the outside counsel handling the litigation involving the previous round of CEO FAFO are too high this quarter, please handle. Finally, Marketing wants to know if they needed to run the contract they just signed through your office.
Captive Counsel: Bloodsucking lawyers cost too much. Let's force them to only take our work, and threaten to put them out of business if they increase their rates.
10:40AM–Sport on. So true. Obviously you know the drill and have been "In House Counsel". Then there are the Managers who have a law degree but never practiced and want to show you how smart they are until they get in trouble and need to be rescued. How about the outside litigation counsel who want to get off the case so they dump the client and the file comes back "in house".
@10:40, 9:42 here, you nailed it. Also, good job security!
And yeah there's a huge difference between captive insurance counsel and regular in-house. I've worked at other in-house jobs that were absolutely terrible for so many reasons. Really seems to come down to finding a good place that's a good fit.
Concur!
I work for the State. I love the work but the bureaucracy and micromanagement can be soul crushing at times. I get to work from home which is nice!
My spouse and I have our own firm with a few staff the work remotely. During the pandemic we sold the smaller house and bought a larger house, setup two bedrooms as two home offices, got rid of the 4 office suite at the expiration of the lease that fortunately expired during the pandemic as well, and all the BS that comes with it. We setup both staff with their desk, USB headphones and VOIP softphones, dual monitors and laptop with docking station. We meet with staff on video calls weekly for case review. Best tech feature is noise cancellation on VOIP system so client's don't hear dogs barking. Benefits – not having to drive downtown anymore to sit in the office all day, ability to work in remote places, etc.
Also, nooners.
10:45 my hero of the day. My dry cleaning bills have dropped through the floor. I did spend a tidy sum on sweatpants and fluffy socks.
I can't think of a single good thing about where I work.
I tell people that I opened my own shop with the idea that I would gain the right to take my mental health and QOL into consideration. The hidden secret is that I gained the right and lost the ability.
Very well said.
I think you need to listen to 9:48.
Keep it small, keep it all. Emphasis on small.
At a larger firm. There're drawbacks to the life, for sure. But I do love the high-rise view from my office. The aesthetics of "big law" can be cool.
No nooners for you……..
I sure do love the view from my nooner.
What "big law" is in Las Vegas?
Anything over a dozen lawyers. IMO.
I'm with 1:31 pm – what "big law" is in Vegas?
Tons of lawyers + Cravath scale = Big Law
Tons of lawyers + near Cravath scale = regional big law
Few lawyers + near Cravath scale (or higher) = elite boutique
Lots of lawyers + significantly below Cravath scale = mid law
"No, sir, you are not Big Law. Your firm may have a ton of lawyers, but your payscale isn't on the 'Cravath scale', so you're regional big law."
The way some people in our professional are so interested in ranking, defining and gatekeeping is amusing. None of it matters.
At the end of it all, we are only in competition with ourselves. And when that competition is over, we all end up in the same place.
Can we please have a topic of discussion about how we as lawyers – masters of language – have settled on the term biglaw to describe the supposed highest echelons of legal practice. Biglaw? Really? That's the best we've come up with?
ChatGPT bugs me too. Not even an acronym.
1:31 and 3:45 are missing the point. Sure, the original post is relative to Vegas, which is a backwater. Fine, we get it.
I think the original post is commenting literally on the aesthetic quality of the conference rooms and skyline views (relative to Vegas) at Snell, Greenberg, Brownstein, Lewis Roca, Kemp Jones, etc. It doesn't make them better lawyers. It's just an lifestyle choice, which causes the overhead nut of every attorney there to be a shit ton. Nevertheless, it's nice space
The point is that big law implies bucco bucks, elite attorneys, and perks.
Pretending that you're big law because your firm rides on credit (*cough* Lionel Sawyer.. Jones Vargas *cough*), while your non-equity partners are paid the same as a Craveth first year doesn't actually make you a big law attorney.
To me, Biglaw is a well deserved slur. It implies corporate bloat, huge billing requirements, office politics, dramatic nonsense, unrealistic expectations and anyone that doesn't toe the line, pay the lip service, put in the facetime and kiss the asses, gets the boot.
One year at Beckley, decades ago was more than enough for me. The small firm I left for actually taught me how to be a lawyer. Two years of that and then a fruitful, enjoyable and stress managed Solo practice ever since.
Eff Biglaw.
3:59 gets it.
LOL that 6:43 thinks Beckley was akin to Biglaw.
643am here.
It was as close as I ever got and it was more than enough.
Why does it matter whether Beckley was 'biglaw' or not?
I don't think "big law" Vegas attorney's realize their reputation. Hint – it's not good. The only respectable big law attorneys I know are "former" big law attorneys -whether they got canned or quit. I understand the desire for young lawyers to want to test the waters there – but after a certain number of years you are aware of your surroundings and you choose to stay – making your judgment questionable (and not respected).
All you so-called 'biglaw' gatekeepers are comedy gold.
(Regional) biglaw gatekeeper here. I think 8:32's point was that if 6:43's closest experience to biglaw was non-biglaw Beckley, than what standing would 6:43 have to criticize biglaw based on her/his prior work experience?
For more biglaw insights, please join me at my new blog, the Bob Biglaw Law Blog.
Absent a clear and objective definition of "Biglaw", I am of the opinion that 6:43am is not wrong that at the time (I assume the 90's), Beckley was considered Biglaw for this market, along with ATMNS, Lionel Sawyer and similar for the period.
Everything is relative.
Not someone who has weighed in on this yet. But the term "BigLaw" is not market relative. The biggest law firm in Elko is not and never has been considered "BigLaw." The biggest law firm in Kingman is not and never has been considered "BigLaw."
Man the semanticians are out in force today. 🙄
This is why I hate lawyers.
I don't understand OP's correlation between "big law" and a high-rise view. Gina Corena & Associates is in a high-rise does that mean I have to start considering her big law?
Seems like OP just wants to brag, which is why OP is getting dragged.
What a thorough debunking. I'm convinced, the term "big law" is inapplicable to any firm in Nevada. And apparently it's triggering for many smaller-shop attorneys who take it as a slight, as well as insult fodder for New Yorker wannabes who think they're more cosmopolitan than the rest of us rubes because they obsess about AMLaw 50 statistics (e.g., 3:48, 1:01).
No reason to fight over who's the tallest midget.
Maybe the OP is jealous of how much less overhead and bullshit politics there is in smaller firms, envious of the daily afternoon delight, and realizing the only thing she'd miss by leaving Brownstein is the hardwood and the 16th floor view.
12:45 pm: There is a clear and objective definition of big law. It's embarrassing when regional firms act like their "big law." As 9:34 am points out, maybe the Vegas wannabes who refer to themselves as "big law" don't know how they come off, but it's not good.
Vegas does have a big law firm: Greenburg Traurig. Which means, the definition is not "market dependent." (Note: Greenburg Traurig is not in a high rise).
The definition of big law is:
The term "Biglaw" is used to describe the most successful and largest law firms, and the attorneys that work there are typically called Biglaw attorneys. Not all Biglaw firms operate at a massive level, as there are many boutique law firms that count as part of Biglaw due to the prestige of the firm, equity partners or revenue they generate. Big Law refers to large, high-revenue law firms that are usually located in major cities in the United States and around the world. These firms often have multiple branches and an international presence. Lawyers at Big Law firms generally earn higher salaries than those in other private-sector law jobs. Big Law firms tend to charge clients high fees.
sources: https://www.bcgsearch.com/article/900052384/Biglaw-Firm-What-Is-It-and-Is-It-Worth-It/
https://www.biglawinvestor.com/what-is-biglaw/
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/big-law-salary
https://www.bankrate.com/loans/student-loans/big-law-salaries/
https://money.howstuffworks.com/biglaw.htm
https://www.top-law-schools.com/introduction-to-biglaw.html
Here is a list of actual big law firms: https://abovethelaw.com/law-firm-rankings/top-law-firms/
Nobody GAF
1:47, Jesus! Who hurt you? Were picked last for a kickball team when you were a kid, or something?
@1:47,
LOLOLOL that you care so much about defining big law and enforcing that definition. LOLOLOL that you went to all the effort to track down all those URLs.
It literally doesn't matter. That said, I hope that people keep trolling and triggering you and others on this issue. It is fucking hilarious to watch you care so much.
Not that it matters, but Lionel Sawyer was, by any objective measure, Big Law. So was Beckley. Why get upset and fight it? It was as elite as any firm in San Francisco, San Diego or Los Angeles. LBBS is Big Law, or was, until the exodus.
There is no big law in Vegas. End of discussion. Get back to work, especially you wanna-biglaw folks.
Absolutely are biglaw firms in Vegas. LBBS, Alverson Taylor used to be, Holland and Heart, etc.
Big law does not equal biglaw
Vegas does have Big law, but doesn't have biglaw.
What I think of biglaw is basically high billables, high compensation, and *prestigious* corporate work. If there's trust and estate group, they deal with assets over $100 million, and they don't do probate under that. Transactional group that does mergers and acquisitions of large companies. Litigation that does not involve personal injury, regardless of the size. The kind of work that clients view as high value, and generally the clients are larger corporations or their friends.
Lionel Sawyer was a respected white-shoe firm, but was not Biglaw. It just wasn't prominent enough. If you asked someone in LA, or New York, or outside Nevada about LS, you'd get a "Who?" Beckley was close, and may have reached enough prominence to be considered. GT is. ATMS is/was a sweatshot, and was never biglaw. No insurance defense firm is. ID is a commodity practice and the compensation sucks no matter where you are.
Note: I'm a solo, and have never been biglaw. I did however, stay in a Motel 6 (not recently, just in my poorer days) and read ATL back in the day when comments were allowed.
7:38…. In Sesame Street parlance, comparing Lionel Sawyer, Beckley, GT and ATMS, one of these things is not like the other. GT is not LV based. It has a satellite office that is nothing but a satellite office
Our office is completely lacking diversity and equity. I love it.
Love this.
I really like my clients (I'm a government lawyer).
https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/lewis-brisbois-chair-executive-committee-are-out-after-lawyer-exodus-2023-05-04/
Can I just tell you how impressed I am that they got 110 lawyers to move and start a new firm? I have never been able to get more than 2 lawyers be able to successfully split off.
And that they kept it enough of a secret that they all didn’t get fired beforehand! Amazing!